To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Outboard Related Only
User avatar
Buccaneer
Posts: 2644
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:34 pm

To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby Buccaneer » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:47 pm

I tore apart a little 1956, single cylinder, air cooled West Bend 2 hp today.
It only had 52 psi compression, so I tore down the power head to take
a look-see. I was surprised to see that the rings, piston, and cylinder
looked nice, and the rings were all loose. I attempted to measure
the cylinder for wear for taper and out of round, and found no more
that .002 difference any which way.

I'm thinking of just trying to "de-glaze" the cylinder and see if the compression
improves.

Q. What would be normal compression on this engine?
Q. What is your favorite type of small engine hone or de-glazer?

The bore is 1-3/4". I have a spring loaded hone, but it only goes down
to 2" bore. I have used a wire wheel in a die grinder before, if I can
find the correct size, just to "scuff up" the cylinder slightly, but I'm
curious what others are using to hone smaller cylinders???
Thanks.

aquasonic
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:13 pm
Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby aquasonic » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:14 pm

I just bought a Flex Hone from Ebay. The one that I needed was for a 2" bore, but they have all kinds of sizes and grit.

User avatar
Fisherman6
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:05 am
Location: SE Michigan
Contact:

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby Fisherman6 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:15 pm

I use a Flex-Hone in 240 grit for cross hatch and deglazing. Plenty of times if I'm just trying to knock the glaze off and try to improve compression a bit I'll just use some 220 or 320 grit emery paper to get some cross hatch and wash the cylinder out thoroughly with brake cleaner before replacing the cylinder head.
-Ben
Ben Breitner
AOMCI Member
YouTube handle: Old JohnnyRude

User avatar
Travis24
A.O.M.C.I. Webmaster
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:29 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby Travis24 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:53 pm

FYI

"Use Flex-Hone oil. You need to use the proper oil to hold the silicone carbide residue in suspension so it can be cleaned out. You must clean out you cylinders with Hot soapy water only. Never use a solvent like Gas, Kerosene or degreaser on your cylinders under any condition at any time." from Harry Brinkman.

Travis

Jerry Ahrens
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:49 pm
Location: Lake of the Ozarks Mo.

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby Jerry Ahrens » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:13 pm

I have a 2 hp West Bend but I don't remember if I've ever checked compression on it. It doesn't seem to have much though..I run Stihl air cooled oil a little richer than 16/1, and it seems to run better that way. Be careful honing, because you may remove to much material and make the problem worse.
Jerry Ahrens AOMCI Member MAPS Chapter President

Brook N.
Evinrude Rowboat Motor Special Interest Group Leader
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:01 pm
Location: Taunton, Ma.

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby Brook N. » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:29 pm

I agree with Jerry, removing more material will make the problem worse.
I would leave it as is.

In my opinion flex hones will follow a out of round cylinder.
If you what to true up a cylinder a ridged hone would be best
For that job.

Opinions will vary.

Respectfully,
Brook E. Newcomb
Evinrude Rowboat Motor
Special Interest Group
(508)-277-4448
benewcomb@hotmail.com

User avatar
Buccaneer
Posts: 2644
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:34 pm

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby Buccaneer » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:09 pm

Thanks for the replies. Good reminder about using "air cooled" 2 cycle oil...
I'm not used to that in outboards!

I've never heard of "flex hone" oil, nor do I have one of those "ball hones".
I've thought about them in the past, but not sure how many different
sizes one would need.

Seem like in the old days they said to use kerosene for a lubricant
while honing, and wash the cylinder after with "hot, soapy stoddard water"!

Whatever I do, I'll be sure not to get "trigger happy" and remove metal!

fmanracer
A.O.M.C.I. President
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby fmanracer » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:41 am

Travis24 wrote:FYI

"Use Flex-Hone oil. You need to use the proper oil to hold the silicone carbide residue in suspension so it can be cleaned out. You must clean out you cylinders with Hot soapy water only. Never use a solvent like Gas, Kerosene or degreaser on your cylinders under any condition at any time." from Harry Brinkman.

Travis

Travis, there was no person more in tune with what needed to be done with a cylinder than Harry R. Brinkman. Everything your stating is right on the money.

zul8tr
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:21 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby zul8tr » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:06 am

I use a flex (ball) hone 240 silicone carbide grit on steel bores to remove wall glaze when doing a ring replacement (or sometimes same rings) AND the cylinder measures well within spec for taper and out of round because the flex hone will follow the bore and will make things worse more or less.

If the cylinder is out of spec it usually requires machining like rebore, to true it up,etc. but then you are into oversized piston(s) and $$ go up.

If operated correctly in my experience the flex hone will remove less than 0.0002" (2 parts in 10,000), hardly an issue. I use outboard oil to hone and when done I clean with very hot soapy water replacing the hot water multiple times and vigorously scrub with a round brush that fills the bore until after wiping out there is no residue on the cloth. Then dry and quickly lube the cylinder with outboard oil because oxidation quickly sets in. To get the correct cross hatch pattern. I use a variable speed drill set around 400 rpm and stroke at up and down once per second and do about 25 strokes. But that varies with user, correct hatch pattern is what you are after and that is hone marks up that are about 23 degrees from ring plane and the same angle down from ring plane for a total angle between hone marks about 45 degrees. Do not let the hone rotate without the up and down.

I have done just flex honing on a good in spec bore using the same rings and compression usually improves. In your case I would try that and see what happens after the rings re-seat running the engine under load (not much idle) using the mineral (no synthetic) air cooled 2 cycle oil. With just a hone job and same rings I just just start it up and check for any leaks and take it out on the boat and open it up (not much idling) and vary the rpms from 1/2 to full throttle for about 20 minutes then full tilt. This puts a load on the rings and runs them in. After a few runs check the compression cold and compare to the pre hone compression.

What oil ratio are you using, what does the manual recommend? IMO would not run your engine leaner than 25:1 oil ratio. Ex. I run 16:1 in my 2 cycle air cooled weed wacker it runs better than the factory recommendation 32:1, better compression, more oil does that. Same ratio in my water cooled race outboards.

I never use Ethanol based fuel.

I use these hones, the BC hone series, there are videos how to do hone:

http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c1=1

I find best price deals at Summit Racing auto parts, here is the hone for your 1.75" bore:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brh-bc13424/media/

You may find a better deal?

Questions welcome. :)
Keep Movin' - Life is catching up :o

User avatar
Buccaneer
Posts: 2644
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:34 pm

Re: To Hone or not to Hone is the Question

Postby Buccaneer » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:37 am

Zul8tr, Thanks for the detailed reply and links!
I believe I will add "flex hones" to my arsenal of tools
for de-glazing.
I watched the videos on the link. Sounds like there's
many options for honing lubrication.
I'm don't know the recommended oil ratio for this motor yet.
I've never had it running before, but I do know it will be
a while before the little motor gets run on the lake under load...
guessing another month before "Ice out". :o
Much appreciated!


Return to “Ask A Member”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dave Bernard, RPSIII, Slim60 and 6 guests