Evinrude Model A? RBM – Help needed.

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  • May 26, 2016 at 2:50 am #4361
    ausf233
    Participant

      Hi guys,

      I’m a recent new member located in Melbourne Australia, and looking for some assistance from the experts in relation to an early Evinrude RBM. This particular unit is fitted with a Model A lower and a Model B fuel tank and flywheel. It also comprises a few modifications performed by the previous owner.

      Rather than to potentially skew your thoughts/responses by providing as purchased photos, I thought I’d capture and display casting numbers found on various components that may assist with identification, particularly model, manufacturing year or year range. Any assistance you can provide with would be much appreciated.

      Barrel/Cylinder.

      Upper Crank Case.

      Lower Crank Case.

      Gearbox.

      Transom Assembly.

      silencer Sitting horizontally (instead of vertically) on a home-made exhaust manifold and bracket. PS: Please ignore the con-rod currently used as a tiller. A reversing tiller assembly will be purchased at some stage during the resto.

      Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

      Kind Regards,
      AUSF233

      May 26, 2016 at 10:09 am #37181
      RICHARD A. WHITE
      Participant

        Lifetime Member

        Well, model "B" is a non reversing lower unit, I would think you could go either way, BUT the tank, if it has a tag, that information should drive which direction you go. If the tag on the tank has a "B" then I would look for a non-reversing lower unit, of a close vintage, use the tag number to get a close year proper exhaust and go from there. Welcome to the club, and you will like that motor.

        http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
        classicomctools@gmail.com

        May 26, 2016 at 10:15 pm #37200
        kees
        Participant

          International Member - 2 Years

          .
          Hi there down under ! 😉
          I followed the whole topic, seen on the website "Saving Old Seagulls".
          So I know the # on the ID tag, and a lot more details, photos and replies
          It must be a 1914 model, several parts shown here proof that also.
          Casting numbers don’t help in this case ( I think ?? )
          Picture of the upper crank case with mark 11 , means nothing, maybe a mark of the owner ?
          The muffler can could be an original exhaust can from a 1913 or 1914 model.
          The only thing what is not right , is the reversing lower unit.
          Nice motor, see if you can make it original again and have a lot of fun with it.

          Congrats with it. 😎
          .

          May 27, 2016 at 3:29 am #37209
          ausf233
          Participant

            Thanks to you both Richard & Kees,

            I believe there is an excel spreadsheet out there somewhere that contains detail (parts, casting numbers etc) on year by year basis. Might try shooting Brook Newcombe a pm to see if he’s aware of that and how I might get a copy. I’m sure it will give many answers.

            It’s interesting that both of you have suggested going Model B. All the research I’ve done thus far (on line and verbal) indicates 1914 or earlier Model A, with a tank and flywheel swap at some stage. I would prefer to stay with Model A, as I think the reversing gear-foot speaks volumes for the technology that existed back in the day …. even if it wasn’t all that reliable.

            All part of the fun I guess.

            PS: Kees, it’s good to know you’re on SOS also. As stated above didn’t want to skew peoples thinking by posting as purchased photos. Not sure if that was the best idea so will see how this attempt goes and may reconsider later. Happy to share my photobucket if it helps.

            Regards,
            AusF233

            May 27, 2016 at 10:07 am #37212
            RICHARD A. WHITE
            Participant

              Lifetime Member

              For what it is worth, it would be cheaper and easier to make it a "B" model as that only requires the different gear foot. That being said either model of that vintage is a worthy motor to own. As I understand, with my limited knowledge, the differences in models, for that year, it just the gear case with corresponding ID tag. that being said in ’14 you had the option of either magneto OR battery ignition as I think ’14 was the first year for magneto, and either an "a" or "B" model.

              As for the record, there is a spreadsheet out there that gives great insight into identifying these old girls. You can contact "The Prime Minister" Christopher Scratch, he can then set you up in the Southern Ontario Rowboat Motor Chapter of the AOMCI. It costs nothing and you then can gab directly with other individuals dealing with specifics on rowboat motors. I have that spreadsheet, I do not recall anything on casting numbers being used to identify specific years.

              Mine is a 1914, so I kinda love mine and know alot about it…LOL

              Hope this helps.

              Regards

              Richard

              http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
              classicomctools@gmail.com

              May 27, 2016 at 3:02 pm #37219
              Mumbles
              Participant

                Here’s the spreadsheet for all to enjoy!

                May 27, 2016 at 3:10 pm #37222
                RICHARD A. WHITE
                Participant

                  Lifetime Member

                  Should have added, that I am at work and do not have access to that spreadsheet 🙂

                  http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
                  classicomctools@gmail.com

                  May 29, 2016 at 8:33 pm #37322
                  kees
                  Participant

                    International Member - 2 Years

                    .
                    I can’t help saying this, but…..
                    response on this topic is less 😯
                    But honest to say, it is hard to tell a production year when you have a motor built from several parts.
                    It is a 1914 or 1915 , that’s for sure
                    the three-piece crankcase came in 1915 however there are some 1915 models that used the two-piece crankcase
                    the automatic reverse came in 1915.

                    but now what ?

                    What I would do.
                    Make a list of what you need to make a standard model B
                    and make a list of what you need to make a reversible model A
                    I think that it is easier to complete a model B, at least you have right flywheel and
                    the tank with a matching ID #
                    remove some parts from the lower unit , install the water pump
                    however…..
                    a mag plate and the exhaust manifold are harder to find, but you need both parts anyway, what choice you make.
                    good luck. ( just my 2 euro cents )
                    😉

                    May 30, 2016 at 3:35 am #37344
                    ausf233
                    Participant

                      Hi guys,

                      Thanks again for all the information and advice, it has been great.

                      I agree it would be easier and more economical to follow the tank badge (B-22176) and make this a Model B, however my aim here is to determine what it was originally, and not be led by what is essentially and easily damaged and replaceable part. This is why I posted images with casting numbers ie I thought they would be helpful in identifying the exact model/year, but that doesn’t seem to be the case at least thus far anyway.

                      Kees, I agree with your comments regarding the 3 piece crank case coming into production later 1915, however I’m not sure I agree that the automatic reverse also came in 1915. Can I ask where you got that information ie as there are a many pictures of supposedly earlier Evinrude RBM’s with reversing gear-foot on the internet.

                      All that aside for now, if someone could clarify for me the differences between Pre-1915 Model A & Model B, that would be much appreciated.

                      Fuel tank has had repairs/modifications done to the underside. A replacement tank or tank section will be needed to correct this issue.

                      Port and starboard side of transom bracket are different in shape (note upper section). Anecdotal evidence suggests that the squarer shape the provision for return spring (hole) is valid for Model A. It would be nice to have confirmation either way.

                      Upper swivel bracket comprises a cast section (see top left) designed to allow rotation in one direction. This type of casting could potentially form part of the auto-reversing function but I don’t know for sure because I’m yet to see all the parts (tiller and reversing block/mechanism) that go together to make auto-reversing possible. If my logic is correct this would imply Model A however confirmation either way would be appreciated. In the meantime, any detailed pictures of tiller and reversing block/mechanism would be much appreciated.

                      Piston comprises 3 narrow rings, creating somewhat of a conflict. According to the spreadsheet, pistons with 3 rings were introduced in 1916 however this RBM has a 2 piece crankcase which suggests pre 1915.

                      Flywheel does not comprise magnets (unless they’re very dead), and has the hole filled where the starting knob would have been. The lack of magnets, implies battery ignition model.

                      There is no ignition plate per say, and the advance lever/mechanism is missing.

                      Does any of the above assist with model/year ID?

                      Thanks & regards,
                      AusF233

                      May 31, 2016 at 10:51 am #37436
                      RICHARD A. WHITE
                      Participant

                        Lifetime Member

                        Ok,
                        Not to beat a dead horse but, the casting numbers on the individual parts will not get you any closer to identifying the exact year. The ID tag does that for you. I recently sold a motor that when I got it, it had parts covering the years 1913 to 1926 using the above mentioned spread sheet as a guide. Now using the sheet posted earlier you can use that to determine if any of the parts you have do not belong to a 1914 Model B. The ONLY sure identifier is that tag. It fits nicely within the serial number range for that year. As for all the other parts, you can add parts from a 1925 and they probably will still bolt right on. Your tank ID tag is 1914, 2 models that year, "A", or "B".

                        Pick which model you want and go that direction, the year is pretty concrete, but of course not one person alive today can verify that.

                        So which 1914 model will you have???

                        "A" ??????

                        or

                        "B" ?????

                        Cheers and get that thing back together !!!!!! 🙂

                        http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com
                        classicomctools@gmail.com

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