Home Forum Ask A Member 1955 QD 16 Rod Knock/Piston Upgrade Question

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  • #289673
    Crowsbeak
    Participant

      US Member

      I have run this motor several times since getting it back up and running this spring and it has been running great!  Idles down to nothing and pretty quick out of the hole.  Unfortunately, on the last run over the weekend it started to make a different noise.  I brought it home and checked and sure enough there is just a slight knock that has developed on the lower cylinder.  Knowing this is a problem with these motors, especially the ones prior to 1959, I have sourced a 1961 powerhead to perform the rod/piston upgrade which was way cheaper than sourcing parts individually.

      My question is are the cranks also interchangeable?  If I can transplant the crank, rods and pistons (with new rings) directly from the 1961 into the 1955 it would mean I do not have to disturb the needle bearings on the crank side of the rods as per the parts sheets it looks like those bearings are not caged and I do not want to risk losing one. If they do interchange, I would likely use the 1961 crank bearings as well since theoretically they should have less wear and are the same part numbers.  I would move my new upper and lower carbon seals over from the 1955 as it looks like those part numbers are the same as well.

      The 1955 parts sheet lists the crank as part number 376380 and Marine Engine lists the 1961 crank as part number 376107 so I am not sure what changed.

      Thanks in advance,

      Jeff

       

      1954 Evinrude 7.5 HP
      1954 Evinrude 15 HP
      1954 Gale 12 HP
      1955 Johnson 10 HP
      1956 Johnson 10 HP
      1956 Gale 12 HP
      1956 Evinrude 5.5 HP
      1958 Johnson 7.5
      1960 Evinrude 18 HP
      1973 Johnson 6 HP

      #289677
      Crowsbeak
      Participant

        US Member

        I think I answered my own question, I believe the rods would need to come off since the pistons can only come out through the head side of the motor as I believe there is a stop on the crank side.  I guess if the crank was interchangeable would there any benefit to one over the other as long as both are in good shape?

        1954 Evinrude 7.5 HP
        1954 Evinrude 15 HP
        1954 Gale 12 HP
        1955 Johnson 10 HP
        1956 Johnson 10 HP
        1956 Gale 12 HP
        1956 Evinrude 5.5 HP
        1958 Johnson 7.5
        1960 Evinrude 18 HP
        1973 Johnson 6 HP

        #289678
        bobw
        Participant

          US Member

          My Johnson Common Parts list shows the same crankshaft part #376380 was used on the QD-15 through the QD-24 motors so your 1956 and 1961 crankshafts should be samey-same.   You are correct that the rods have to removed so the pistons can come out the head side of the motor, so since you need to pull both powerheads apart you can just compare which crankshaft appears to be in better condition once you get them torn apart.  Examine the crank and rod journals for pitting or scoring and take some measurements to check for excessive wear.

          Bob

          1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
          1954 Johnson CD-11
          1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
          1958 Johnson QD-19
          1958 Johnson FD-12
          1959 Johnson QD-20

          “Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”
          "Every time you remove a broken or seized bolt an angel gets his wings."

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          #289680
          Crowsbeak
          Participant

            US Member

            Thanks for confirming Bob!  I’ll utilize the better of the two cranks then.  I will do as you suggest and take some measurements and compare against the tolerances in the service manual to make an informed decision.

            1954 Evinrude 7.5 HP
            1954 Evinrude 15 HP
            1954 Gale 12 HP
            1955 Johnson 10 HP
            1956 Johnson 10 HP
            1956 Gale 12 HP
            1956 Evinrude 5.5 HP
            1958 Johnson 7.5
            1960 Evinrude 18 HP
            1973 Johnson 6 HP

            #289695
            bobw
            Participant

              US Member

              Good luck with the swap-out.   Keep us posted on progress and share some photos of the work as you go.

              Bob

              1937 Champion D2C Deluxe Lite Twin
              1954 Johnson CD-11
              1957 Evinrude Fastwin 18
              1958 Johnson QD-19
              1958 Johnson FD-12
              1959 Johnson QD-20

              “Every 20 minute job is only a broken bolt away from a 3-day project.”
              "Every time you remove a broken or seized bolt an angel gets his wings."

              #289706
              Crowsbeak
              Participant

                US Member

                I will.  Here are a few pictures of my fuel reclaimer set up as well as my capacitor condenser replacement.  Since those motor was initially going to scrap and I got it for $30 so I have been using it as a bit of test motor based off information I have gleaned off this wonderful site.

                1954 Evinrude 7.5 HP
                1954 Evinrude 15 HP
                1954 Gale 12 HP
                1955 Johnson 10 HP
                1956 Johnson 10 HP
                1956 Gale 12 HP
                1956 Evinrude 5.5 HP
                1958 Johnson 7.5
                1960 Evinrude 18 HP
                1973 Johnson 6 HP

                1 user thanked author for this post.
                #289797
                Crowsbeak
                Participant

                  US Member

                  Donor engine and head gasket came in this weekend.   I got the case split and the and the pistons, rods and crank pulled and cleaned.  Everything is bagged up and ready to go.  Going to pull the QD-16 powerhead this week and get that cleaned up.  Rings coming today and the new lower crank bearing O-ring coming Wednesday.   In regards to that 0-ring, it appeared the QD-22 had sealer inside and outside on that, is it ok to use a small amount Permatex Aviation gasket maker for sealing that O-ring to the bearing and on the exterior to seal it to the case halves?  I plan to use Permatex anaerobic sealant for the block halves with no primer applied only to the cover half to avoid using too much.  I also plan to use Vaseline kept cool in the fridge to hold the crank needles in place. I am also confirming there are 29 crank needles per rod like in the photo from Marine Engine?

                   

                  1954 Evinrude 7.5 HP
                  1954 Evinrude 15 HP
                  1954 Gale 12 HP
                  1955 Johnson 10 HP
                  1956 Johnson 10 HP
                  1956 Gale 12 HP
                  1956 Evinrude 5.5 HP
                  1958 Johnson 7.5
                  1960 Evinrude 18 HP
                  1973 Johnson 6 HP

                  #289852
                  Crowsbeak
                  Participant

                    US Member

                    Sooo, I’ve run into a bit of an issue.  When I split the 1955 case the rod knock was worse than I thought, and the upper cylinder had a large score.  After some honing I have it usable but the end gap on the rings is at .020 and the manual lists a top limit at .017.  The lower cylinder is at .016 so just in spec.

                    The question is could I modify the 1961 block to work on the 1955 motor.  It looks like I need to plug the thermostat holes on the block, and drill one new cooling hole.  I need to reuse the 1955 head but it looks like the holes line up as do the holes on the exhaust leg.  Everything else looks like it will line up (see pdf attached below with notes and photos).  The 1961 cylinders are in great shape and well below the upper end gap limit. Is there anything else I am overlooking? It looks like the starter mounts will bolt on and the intake bolts also match up.

                    If this works, I need to get three broken exhaust bolts out add a little green paint and I hopefully have a great runner.

                     

                    I appreciate any insights.

                     

                    Regards,

                    Jeff

                    1954 Evinrude 7.5 HP
                    1954 Evinrude 15 HP
                    1954 Gale 12 HP
                    1955 Johnson 10 HP
                    1956 Johnson 10 HP
                    1956 Gale 12 HP
                    1956 Evinrude 5.5 HP
                    1958 Johnson 7.5
                    1960 Evinrude 18 HP
                    1973 Johnson 6 HP

                    #289860
                    fleetwin
                    Participant

                      US Member - 2 Years

                      Oh boy, so sorry to hear about the original cylinder being messed up.  I’m thinking that the changes you propose would work out fine, but this is an “experiment” for sure.  If it were me, I would reassemble the exhaust cover with new gaskets and install the head (use the old head gasket for this test)  without putting the powerhead back together.  Now loosely assemble the crankcase halves and screw the empty powerhead to the block using a new/dry gasket.  Then I would rig up a water supply to the water tube and let water run through you proposal to make sure there are no unforseen leaks and that water escapes from the exhaust relief.  I’m pretty sure both models use the same base gasket, but you will want to check that out.    Not sure about the minor differences on the bottom of the crankcase though.

                      You are a trailblazer indeed.  I just don’t want you to go through all this rebuild work only to find out it won’t work out.  I probably have an empty crankcase for a non thermostat model you can have, but it is from a 57-58 model.  Nonetheless, you are welcome to it… Don

                      1955 was the first year for this version of the 10hp, there are some unique things about it for sure…

                      #289867
                      Crowsbeak
                      Participant

                        US Member

                        Thanks for your input and fleetwin and I appreciate the offer for the crankcase, I may take you up on it if this project hits a dead end;) I was able to extract and retap the 3 broken exhaust bolts and drill out the water passage last night, see photo.  I also ran a small zip tie through all the water passages to confirm where they went and as far as I can tell the only differences were the thermostat passage and the undrilled passage.

                        Great idea to do a test run of the water jacket before I assemble everything to confirm I didn’t miss anything.  My next step is to fill in the thermostat water passage with epoxy.  Once that is done I can reattach the exhaust cover and head and will run water through it to see if I missed any passages.  If water goes in inlet and out exit and exhaust and cylinders stay dry I can mount the assembly to the exhaust leg and test again to see if any issues crop up there. I’ll report back when this gets done.

                        I looked at the 1961 base gasket and it looks like the only difference is the size was reduced for the water inlet from the water pump and there was some additional casting around the drive shaft in 1961, so I will need to stick with the 1955 style base gasket.  See exhaust leg pdf for a comparison.

                        Jeff

                        1954 Evinrude 7.5 HP
                        1954 Evinrude 15 HP
                        1954 Gale 12 HP
                        1955 Johnson 10 HP
                        1956 Johnson 10 HP
                        1956 Gale 12 HP
                        1956 Evinrude 5.5 HP
                        1958 Johnson 7.5
                        1960 Evinrude 18 HP
                        1973 Johnson 6 HP

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