1930 Elto Senior Speedster Lower Unit

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Tubs Tubs 2 hours, 27 minutes ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
  • Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158644

    I started taking apart the lower unit on the subject motor.
    Finally got the bronze thrust assembly out of the
    gear case, but now I’m not able to pull the driveshaft
    out and remove the drive gear. The gear is keyed
    on the drive shaft. The gear will slide on the shaft
    about 3/16″ and stop dead. I see no snap rings
    or set screws that could be stopping it.
    I tried gently prying up on the driveshaft via
    the water pump impeller, but don’t want to break that.
    Any ideas what may be keeping the drive shaft from sliding
    out of the gear?
    I see nothing on the parts diagram to give me any clues.

    Warning Will Rogers…… I was going to post photos of
    the parts at issue, but I no longer see a way to do so.
    What’s up with that?

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158658

    Finally got the drive shaft gear out of the gear case,
    after the “proverbial blonde moment” passed.
    I didn’t think the gear would have clearance to
    pull off the driveshaft while in the case, but it did.
    The driveshaft would not pull out of the case
    with the gear on, because the key under the
    gear hitting the drive shaft bearing. Duh.
    I was surprised to see that the gear case
    was fully jeweled with three ball bearings.
    Two of the bearings sound / feel good, but
    unsure about the prop shaft forward – thrust
    bearing. Sounds a little funny, but it may just
    be rubbing on the thrust adjuster….. if’s that’s
    what I’m seeing forward of the bearing.
    There’s a nose cone on the gear case, which
    would be nice to get off in order to tap the
    ball bearing out of the case.
    Not sure how it’s installed, but it’s conical,
    and I can’t even get a pliers on it. Tried
    taping from the inside with a brass punch,
    but not sure what I’m doing. There’s a beveled,
    flush screw head, presumably to adjust the thrust,
    but it doesn’t budge.
    Maybe I’m losing my mind, but now I see the
    “Select File” link.
    Thanks.

    Prepare to be boarded!

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 18 hours ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 18 hours ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.
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    pm-t2
    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 360
    Topics: 4
    #158671

    The aluminum nose cone is not pressed it, in has one slotted screw that holds it in place from the inside. Heating the outside of the cone may allow it to come loose easier. …… and lefty-loosy, eh.

    If you’re not using soft jaws in your vise to hold the skeg, consider using pieces of 2 X 4 to avoid leaving unwanted impressions on the skeg.

    Hope this helps.

    Best,
    PM T2

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158684

    Thanks for the tip on getting the nose cone off.
    If that screw is to hold the cone on, how is the
    gear mesh set? Shims?

    Skeg was not clamped in the vice, just sitting
    loose so I could take the photos.
    I use wood shims when I want to do clamping……
    don’t need any added antiquing to an 88
    year old outboard!

    Prepare to be boarded!

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 16 hours ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.

    garry-in-tampa
    Lifetime Member
    Replies: 2879
    Topics: 29
    #158698

    That Elto pattern lower unit was used for over ten years – a really great design.


    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158713

    Garry, glad to hear the gear box design was a “good” one.
    Thanks for the diagrams.

    Would I find anything in an Evinrude repair manual
    on setting up the gear lash, pulling bearings, etc.,
    on this L.U.?
    Thanks.

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158743

    The heat on the nose cone did the trick getting the screw loose that attached the cone.
    Then was able to tap out the double row ball bearing with a brass punch.
    After cleaning it, I think it’s in good shape considering it’s age.

    Still have the outboard propshaft bearing I’d like to get out of the conical housing, (part list # 213)
    but have not figured out the way to do it yet. There’s no gap for an inside puller
    to grab on, and no way to tap it out from the end that I can tell.
    Any clues on that one?

    The aluminum nose cone is not pressed it, in has one slotted screw that holds it in place from the inside. Heating the outside of the cone may allow it to come loose easier. …… and lefty-loosy, eh.

    PM T2

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Tubs
    Tubs
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 1903
    Topics: 108
    #158768


    Knocking the gear case on a block of wood
    should get the bearing out. If you happen to
    live where the temp. gets down to the teens or
    lower leave the gear case outside over night
    and see if it will pop out in the morning. Option
    two is the freezer. Good luck with that one.

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158783

    Knocking the gear case on a block of wood

    should get the bearing out. If you happen to

    live where the temp. gets down to the teens or

    lower leave the gear case outside over night

    and see if it will pop out in the morning. Option

    two is the freezer. Good luck with that one.

    Tubs, I tried slapping the cartridge (with the bearing inside) down
    on the workbench several times, but no go.
    It’s suppose to get down to 3 degrees tonight, so guessing 20 deg.
    in the garage tomorrow morning. Will interrogate it some more in the morning,
    and if that doesn’t work, I can throw it in the deep freeze!

    Prepare to be boarded!


    pm-t2
    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 360
    Topics: 4
    #158785

    I’ll assume that you’re talking about removing the outer race for the tapered roller bearing that is a slip fit on the propshaft.

    My usual trick is to exploit the differences between heat and cold as Tubs suggests. I go as far as to buy some dry ice and use it to chill the interior parts whilst fanning the exterior with a propane torch, then “forcefully applying” the bearing housing against a wood slab (thought it better than saying “slamming”).

    If the non-destructive method doesn’t remove the race, then you’ll have to use a destructive method (grind through the race so that it can collapse inward and relieve the tension of the press fit.)

    Before you do that, ask yourself some questions;

    1) How badly is the outer race pitted? (because it will be) Degree of surface damage may tell you if replacement is warranted, or if its good enough to “get by”
    2) How does the inner race seem to fit with the outer race WRT smoothness of operation, looseness/tightness, etc? If it fits OK, and rolls OK, and isn’t rough or sloppy, maybe it ain’t really broke, so do you really need to fix it?
    2) How much is this motor going to be run?
    4) if the bearing was good enough to run the motor the last time it was used, are you willing to bet she’s got at least one good run left in her as-is but with a good cleaning and lube session used to help it live a bit longer?
    5) Did you notice I asked #2 twice and skipped #3?

    FWIW I’ve worked on a few of these lower units, usually on Sr Speedsters or Super C’s; and the roller bearings were usually the least of my worries. Propshafts and bushings usually need replacing, while the roller or ball bearings are normally salvageable with being washed out and repacked with the appropriate grease. Just my $0.02

    I was gonna upload some pixels, but I guess my files are all too big. Blah™

    Hope this helps.

    Best,
    PM T2

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158790

    I’ll assume that you’re talking about removing the outer race for the tapered roller bearing that is a slip fit on the propshaft.

    I do not believe my unit has a tapered roller bearing with a separate race.
    I believe the bearing I’m talking about is photo #202 above, that inserts into
    the gear housing cover, photo #213.
    All three bearings in my lower unit appear to be actual “ball” bearings.
    The bearing housing has the “blackest”, messiest grease I’ve ever seen.
    Seems like it’s full of carbon, so I’d like to get the bearing out to better
    clean it, and the passages in the housing. The bearing seems okay, so
    it’s not vital that I have to remove it.
    Thanks for the help!

    Prepare to be boarded!


    garry-in-tampa
    Lifetime Member
    Replies: 2879
    Topics: 29
    #158792

    If the temperature is below 30, use some rags to hold ice lightly against the bearing. Heat the aluminum housing while it is gasket end down on the bench and the bearing should fall out. Cold makes the aluminum press tighter against the steel, compressing any corrosion. Heat expands the aluminum faster than the bearing and gravity does the rest. – (Hopefully)

    David Bartlett
    David Bartlett
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 30
    Topics: 2
    #158799

    Tom, This is what I did on my SpeediTwin and SpeediFour. Should be similar. There is some space behind the bearing that is cut-out. See pictures. I ground a piece of scrap to fit through the bearing and fetch up on the back side. Pulled it out by tightening the nut.

    Attachments:
    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158826

    David, thanks for the reply. I’ll have to look again today to make sure
    what kind of bearing I’m even working with, and if there’s any
    space for a puller to grab on. Thanks!

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2682
    Topics: 754
    #158931

    For some reason I’m not able to access the forums from Drop Down List
    on the top on the home page. Went under my name and used the
    “Topics Started” drop down.
    Is it just me having problems?

    Anyway, I got that pesky ball bearing out of the gear housing today,
    heating it up with a hair dryer for a while and slapping the housing
    down on the bench. That was the easy part. There’s grease galleys
    from the outer housing feeding the long bronze prop bushing.
    Old grease was hard to clean out, but mineral spirits, little tiny bottle brush,
    and the air compressor finally paid off. I had grease all over my face,
    clothes, and garage floor. Snuck in the basement and threw my clothes
    in the wash machine…… all by themselves!

    Prepare to be boarded!

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