Home Forum Ask A Member 1956 Scott Atwater 7.5 hp Bail-a-matic impeller install

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  • #228420
    Buccaneer
    Participant

      US Member

      Mumbles, you’re correct, the one vane is about 1/32″ shy of the side of the liner.
      It may have been Joe CB that put a liner in his Scott using a thin SS strip.
      Not sure what other options would be.
      Other’s may have got their Honda impeller to work without messing with
      the liner……. God Bless Them, lol.

      I did a test of the impeller anyway, and did get it to prime, but the pump darn
      near had to be at water level. It would loose prime when the suction tube
      was still 6″ under water.
      The video shows my testing.

      The homemade drive “test” shaft doesn’t look great, but it worked good for
      the test.

      Back to the drawing board.
      https://youtu.be/MTqifV5Alzo

      DSCN0252

      Prepare to be boarded!

      #228426
      Buccaneer
      Participant

        US Member

        I was just looking on the Scott Atwater forum, and read that
        Jason Pickerall did the Honda impeller swap, but also used
        a pump liner from a Honda 9.9 hp., and it pumped water nicely.
        I PM’d him if he has a part number for that line, as I have no
        idea how many years Honda made a 9.9 and if the pumps
        changed over the years.
        Any good Honda outboard parts sites to look at to research it?
        Thanks.

        Prepare to be boarded!

        #228449
        Mumbles
        Participant

          After searching for a few hours, I don’t think the liners, or inserts, are available by themselves for the Honda BF8D-BF9.9D motors which I think these impellers are meant for. I could be wrong though as all of the liners I could find came with the pump housing and I couldn’t find them individually. Oh well, no problem as I’m sure a liner could be made with a little bit of boring and turning of some aluminum pipe or tubing.

          #228455
          Buccaneer
          Participant

            US Member

            Mumbles, I seen some kits on Ebay that showed the liner as a separate part
            from the housing, but I agree, I didn’t see liners listed separately anywhere,
            and I’m not ready to spend $50 on the kit, just for a liner.

            I’m warming up the garage, and will soon go out and “think” about it,
            and see If I have anything to make a liner out of.

            I researched impellers from AOMCI charts last night, and ordered a couple
            of Sierra 18-3072. The OD of this one is 1/16″ larger OD than the Honda,
            the “height” is .006 thinner, and the bore would have to be bored out .080.
            Sounds like this one might be a possibility?

            I’ll still think about liner for the Honda impellers, but the ordered impellers
            will be a “back-up” plan for the current Bailer, and the other one
            patiently awaiting revival.

            Prepare to be boarded!

            #228502
            Buccaneer
            Participant

              US Member

              I made a liner for the pump housing today so the Honda impeller would fit tighter.
              I found a thin wall brass tube affair that I believe came out of an old
              garden sprayer. It just happened to be the same OD, or darn near,
              as the SS pump liner OD. After I cut off a piece of it “to height”,
              I had to cut about 3/16″ chunk on one end for the brass ring
              to drop inside the SS liner. Lots of measuring, filing, sanding,
              and using a Dremel with a rotary burr to cut out the discharge
              hole in the liner, I glued the brass liner in place with “Seal All”,
              coating both surface lightly, waiting a minute per instructions,
              and darn near didn’t get it back in the pump housing all the way.
              I had to use the vise for the last 1/8″ down as the glue was fighting
              me. Cure time should be about over, so I may go out and put the
              pump back together using my dummy drive shaft again, and see if it pumps.
              DSCN0259

              The Honda impeller “slack vane” now touches the side of the brass liner.
              The brass I used was .035 thick, hence I reduced the inside diameter
              of the pump housing by .070.
              DSCN0261

              Discharge hole in the brass liner drilled and routed out to fit.
              DSCN0264

              I got lucky with the seam in the liner!
              DSCN0265

              Wish me luck.

              Prepare to be boarded!

              #228510
              Buccaneer
              Participant

                US Member

                “Better”, but no cigar yet. After the brass liner was installed, the pump will now take
                suction at normal operating level above water, but only at high speed on the drill.
                The drill tops out at 2500 rpms. Not sure what “Start” position rpms would be on this
                motor, but presume less than 1000 rpms.

                There is a wear circle in the top plate and bottom of the liner, the top being worse,
                where the center hub of the impeller rides. Note at high speed operation on my video, water
                blows out the hole on the top plate where the driveshaft goes thru. Not sure
                what’s happening on the bottom side. Is this indicative of my poor pump performance?
                I could make a new top plate, out of brass, if it’s worth my effort???
                I don’t think the bolt holes line up if I turn the top plate over, but will re-check.

                Any other ideas or thoughts welcomed.
                BTW, the driveshaft has two flats on top of the driveshaft to drive the impellers,
                but there’s also two flats towards the bottom of the driveshaft. Was the same shaft
                used on other models with the pump down low?
                I don’t think there’s a way to mount the pump down low though on this Bailer model.

                https://youtu.be/3F-JKJ7C2pI

                DSCN0271

                Prepare to be boarded!

                #228586
                Buccaneer
                Participant

                  US Member

                  It’s been a learning experience about outboard water pumps.
                  I’ve seen pump liners in worse shape than the one on this
                  Scott, and work just fine, but then again, the pumps were
                  a lot closer to the water level, or actually below, where
                  they should be!
                  Therefore, I’ve concluded that if you want your Scott Bailer
                  to pump water, the pump liner better be in good shape!

                  I also concluded if you’re using Honda impeller
                  19210-ZW9-013 19210-ZW9-003 18-3100 for Honda 4-Stroke Outboard Motors
                  You’ll also need to reduce the inside pump cavity diameter by at least
                  .070 for the impeller to work.

                  I made a new top plate for the water pump housing out of brass plate.
                  Took a while with a hacksaw, belt sand, files, and various bits
                  in the Dremel. Then lapped the plate nice and smooth and level
                  on the pump side.

                  The pump will now take suction at normal operating level above the
                  water, around a foot up, with the drill operating mid range in speed.
                  Also note that the pump no longer blows water out around the top cover where
                  the driveshaft goes through.
                  It could possibly even pump better if my new O-rings for the pump housing
                  ever show up. Guess I’ll work on Scott bailer #2 while I await the O-rings.

                  No guess on the longevity of the brass in the pump vs. the original
                  stainless steel.

                  https://youtu.be/_SgJUXiM5js

                  Prepare to be boarded!

                  #228627
                  Mumbles
                  Participant

                    You’re on the right track here but would it be feasible to make and install a second liner, out of the same material you used for the first one? I’m thinking that would give the vanes firmer contact with the liner lessening the chances of them being bent away from the liner because of resistance to the water. Your brass liner will probably last longer than the aluminum alloy used in OMC pumps.

                    This photo is all I could find of an OMC impeller in its housing and the vanes have good contact all around. Even the one that’s bent backwards.

                    Impeller-Vanes-Twisted

                    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Mumbles.
                    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Mumbles.
                    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Mumbles.
                    #228641
                    Buccaneer
                    Participant

                      US Member

                      Mumbles, the thought crossed my mind to make a second liner to make the
                      pump ID even smaller. I’ll ponder it tomorrow.

                      Found out today that the old impellers that were in in when I took
                      the pump apart, were Lord impellers, # J7598.
                      Found one reference online that said they also fit 33& 35 hp McCollough
                      outboards. I’m curious as to what I’ll find in Scott Bailer project #2.
                      I pulled the lower unit off of it this afternoon, but did not open up the
                      pumps yet. Will be interesting to see how much contact the slackest
                      vane has. The Lord impellers I took out of Bailer #1 didn’t seem any
                      bigger OD than the Honda impellers, but suppose they could have been
                      worn down some.

                      Prepare to be boarded!

                      #228644
                      Mumbles
                      Participant

                        Now I’d like to know what the ID of the Honda liners for these impellers is. If a 8/9.9 Honda donor comes my way, I’m definitely going to take it out and find out.

                        Just wondering if the driveshaft offset is much different between the Honda and the S/A motors. If I find a donor, I’ll measure that to!

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