1958 Evinrude 4- Fifty horse, model 50012 advice

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  • September 12, 2022 at 6:05 pm #265937
    Jeffls
    Participant

      Hello all. Just joined. Found this club  and forum from a couple other boating forums during my searches. I have some outboard motor experience but not a lot, and nothing this old. Ive spent a lot more time working on earlier 90s seadoos. I Recently picked up a 1971 Winner cobra from a coworker. Has a 1958 Evinrude 50 horse mounted on it. Model 50012.
      I’ve found some information about this motor thru Google searching and sifting thru some boating forum threads. I believe this is a base model motor, and a lower model then starflite. Motor is blue in color with a white stripe on the motor cover. I believe this is the original color. I see this motor is very heavy, and a pig on fuel, but supposedly very simple, easy to work on and fairly reliable.
      Looking for some information about this motor if anyone can help out.
      I have not tried to start it yet. It Hasn’t been out on the water in a long time and hasn’t been ran in about 5-6 years. Previous owner told me it did run, and ran well, at least on the trailer. Also Claimed it has decent compression. Have not tested that yet.
      I plan to try and see if I can get it to fire soon. I’ve found that timing advance lever seems to be seized up in the distributor, the distributor timing belt looks pretty rough and is ready for replacement, choke solenoid boot is practically disintegrated, and a leak from the lower unit which appears to be from the output shaft seal.

      My questions are:

      Is this motor worth saving? And if so is there much of a collector market for these? Is this motor something that should be restored as much as possible? Or Is it ok to repaint it a generic color and not worry about decals etc?

      Are all the problems that I described with this motor fixable? Are parts still available? I found marineengine.com still had a parts fiche for this motor, but I can’t seem to find a listing for the belt, the choke boot seems to be discontinued, I think the output shaft seal is available but I’m not certain I’m finding the proper part.

      Can anyone tell me if this motor has a generator on it? From my reading, I don’t think it does. I have found parts lists for optional generator kits, anyone know if these parts are still available?

      Can anyone tell me what type of carburetor it has on it? Was it built by another manufacturer? Do they make rebuild kits still? I’ve found some gaskets on the parts fiche, but nothing for an all together kit.

      I’m assuming for its age and how long it’s been sitting, I should probably replace the water pump impeller? Do I just need the impeller and a gasket? I don’t need a new housing do I? It appears newer motors come as a kit with a housing, I’m not seeing a kit available for this motor.

      Supposedly the points and condenser were replaced before it was put away, but I’m wondering if they should be replaced as well?

      When replacing the output shaft seal, should I do the housing gasket as well? The lower piece of the housing with the skeg on it unbolts from the rest of the lower unit, it appears they make universal gasket.

      Once I get this motor running, can I run it on the hose with the flush muffs? Or am I best putting the motor in a barrel of water?

      And finally, if I find this motor is usable, is there any other maintenance items I should be planning on replacing or any issues that are common that I can plan for ahead of time?

      I can upload photos if anyone wants to see. Sorry for the long post and thank you all for any help.

      Jeff

       

       

       

      September 12, 2022 at 9:32 pm #265958
      frankr
      Participant

        US MEMBER PAY BY CHECK

        People delight in saying it is a gas hog, but you’ve already said it, so that’s done.

        Worth and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.

        There are after-market sources for the belt, a lot cheaper than OMC.  It’ll live just fine without the choke boot.

        Generator was an option.  If you don’t see it, it ain’t there.

        OMC built their own carburetor.

        Certainly will need an impeller.  Muffs won’t work on it.  Use a big barrel or something.

        September 12, 2022 at 10:49 pm #265960
        joecb
        Participant

          US Member

          First off… welcome to the club , Jeff. Like frank said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in this case thats you.

          That is a rugged motor, a good “look around” and compression test will tell you if it’s a good unabused motor. If all the original paint on the power head is intact, that is a good indication the motor has not been abused. That is a belt driven magneto ignition, pretty bullet proof. Your lower unit (gear case) is the old style split case. The newer version (1960) of this V4 motor had the improver streamlined gear case, that helped with the gas milage. For my taste, I like the original colors and decals, but that is up to you. Clean the carb and fuel system, clean the mag points and see if it will fire. As for water, a big barrel or you need the motor specific hose adaptor that gets the water into the “intake” screen.

          Now, you didn’t say where you are located. Best bet for advice, help and parts is to hook up with a local chapter.

          Keep posting questions and some pix here, the guys are very helpful

          Joe B     ( S- E Michigan)

          September 15, 2022 at 12:30 pm #266076
          Jeffls
          Participant

            Thank you guys for the responses.
            I am located in central Jersey on the shore. I see where the generator would be mounted and as stated if it’s not there, then It’s not there, and it’s not there. I won’t be running any electronics in the boat really, so as much as I’d like the motor to have one, it likely will be a non-issue. I will most likely run with a second battery or jump pack as backup just to be safe.

            As for the rest of the motor, I’ve already got a new prop seal and seal carrier o-ring on the way. I’ve also located the spaghetti seal and other parts needed for the water pump and will order those as well. It seems like most of the parts for this motor are relatively inexpensive which is nice to see.
            I’ve pulled the plugs and fogged the motor, and plan to see if it’ll fire within the next few days.
            Just a couple more questions, the timing advance Rod is locked in the distributor. Seeing as how the distributor is mounted with the cap side down, is it probably best to pull the distributor off the motor to fix it?

            Seeing as how the gear case leaks, and Id like to at least hear this motor run before putting any more money towards it, would it be best for me to pull the lower unit before trying to get it to start just so I’m not running the motor with a dry gear case?

            Thanks again for the help.

            • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by Jeffls.
            September 15, 2022 at 1:04 pm #266078
            frankr
            Participant

              US MEMBER PAY BY CHECK

              I always pull the mag/distributor off the motor for service.  Makes it easier that way.  Just make sure you understand the timing marks before you do.

              Yeah, know what you need before ordering parts.

              Very few people opted for the generator kit back then.  The motor is not hard to pull start if in good running condition.

              September 15, 2022 at 10:33 pm #266107
              joecb
              Participant

                US Member

                If you are planning to live with this motor for a while, I highly recommend buying the service manual from Ken Cook Co. This book is much better than the common Celoc manuals and covers all the V-4s 1958 to 1964. I run a 1961 Evinrude v4 on my user boat, this manual is my “bible” for repairs and service. My motor is the later 12volt automotive style battery ignition, your motor has the magneto.  The book is a bit pricy, but worth it.

                As for your concern about the gear case, Have you drained the lube ?  If the case is leaking even a little, the oil will be milky looking. As long as some oil is in there, and not just rusty water I would not be concerned about starting the motor. If you get rusty water, you have much bigger problems.

                Joe

                September 16, 2022 at 6:43 am #266112
                Jeffls
                Participant

                  Thank you for the manual suggestion. I was thinking about a seloc manual, but was able to find a Ken cook manual. As you said, a bit pricey but not unreasonable.
                  I have not drained the gear case yet. When I picked the boat up, the previous owner mentioned it would need a prop seal, and it was visible that the whole gear case lower housing was sticky with old oil and had been leaking for quite some time. The motor has not seen any water for a long time, so I assume the gear case isn’t filled with rusty water, plus the prop shaft has no play and spins very smoothly, but you make a good point. We all know what happens when we assume. I will drain the oil, if any comes out and see how bad it looks.

                  I managed to free up the ignition advance and made an attempt to start it yesterday. I found that I had to jumper the ground side of the trigger to the starter solenoid to ground to get it to crank. I also found that I get no spark. After some research and finding a wiring diagram I believe I have 2 different issues. The starter solenoid trigger is grounded thru the neutral/throttle switch mounted on the top of the motor. The switch seems to be stuck closed so in theory it should allow the motor to crank, I believe there is a break in the wire in the harness between boat electrical box and the and motor. I’m guessing it shouldn’t be too hard to repair
                  The other issue with no spark, I believe is that the magneto is grounded all the time.

                  Can anyone tell me, on the side of the distributor, the terminal with the wire that goes up to the gear, that is the magneto wire and provides voltage to the coil correct? There is another wire stacked on top of that terminal that runs down to a splice, which splits it to a momentary push button switch on the back of the motor and also down into the pass thru terminals and into the boat harness. I assume that push button switch is a kill switch and that wire is the kill wire and would ground the coil and magneto to kill the engine correct?
                  I have to check my ignition switch and see if it’s opening the Magneto contacts. In theory if the distributor/coil/magneto still works, I should be able to pull that kill wire and the motor should then Have spark correct?

                  I jumped the gun and spent about $80 in parts for this motor for a prop, and gaskets for doing the lower gear case. Not so bad that I couldn’t move onto a different motor, if need be but I have some parts and some time into learning this motor, that I’d like to use this motor. I just want to hear it run though before I put any more money towards it, including the cost of the manual. Once I get it to fire, I’ll pull the lower unit and inspect everything and see if a simple reseal and impeller replacement is all that is needed, or if I’m looking at other issues as well. Thank you all for the help so far.

                  September 16, 2022 at 11:17 am #266128
                  frankr
                  Participant

                    US MEMBER PAY BY CHECK

                    There are a lot of things in your posts that just don’t add up.  First off, a model 50012 in a manual start motor, not electric start. Do you have the proper electric start junction box? Secondly. it sounds like you might have a 75hp magneto on that thing.  Possibly even a whole 75hp powerhead??

                    Let’s start off by posting a few pictures.

                    September 16, 2022 at 12:03 pm #266130
                    Tubs
                    Participant



                      Assuming there isn’t any water in the gear case is a big mistake.
                      You should realize there is always the possibility water has entered
                      a gear case until you have drained it. I have found motors with prop
                      shaft gears that are prefect on one half and rusty junk on the other
                      because half the gear was in sitting gear lube while the another half
                      was in water for decades. Many a gear case has been found broken
                      in the spring because somebody assumed there wasn’t any water in
                      it the previous fall.
                      Tubs                      .

                      A "Boathouse Repair" is one that done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

                      September 16, 2022 at 12:23 pm #266131
                      Jeffls
                      Participant

                        <!–more–>Frank, thank you for the help. Looking at the parts fiche online, it does look like 50012 didn’t have electric start. Looks like you had to go up to the 50514 to get electric start. The model number I got off the freeze plug on the block. The plate at the back of the motor near fuel hookup is worn pretty good that I can’t read it.
                        I guess it’s possible it’s a 50514 motor with a power head from a 50012? Or perhaps it is a 50012 and someone added the starter at some point.
                        As for the junction box, no. It is a home built junction box. It’s pretty much a universal electrical work box, with harness from  the ignition switch running into, another harness out to the motor, a fuse for power to the ignition switch, a fuse for the electric choke, a generic marine grade barrel solenoid, and battery positive and ground in, starter power and ground out to the motor.
                        I initially jumped the starter solenoid to get it to crank, then traced the wiring and found the solenoid at least got powered when when key was turned to crank just had no ground. Applied ground to the solenoid coil and was then able to get it to crank  with the ignition key. After that I found had no sparked searched around online and found someone who had a 59 Johnson with similar problem and the wiring diagram attached was posted. I believe mine is wired the same way just without the generator.

                        The previous owner had said he had it running and running well. He said he put it away for the season, then life kicked in, he had a child and the boat sat since then. He  is a friend and co worker of mine who I work with everyday so I’m hoping he’s truthful that it did run.
                        I will get some pictures if I can later today, I have some pics of the motor with the cover on, but nothing with the cover off.
                        Thank you again.

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