1970 85 hp V4

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This topic contains 65 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Avatar fleetwin 2 years ago.

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  • frankr
    frankr
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #58523

    Ok, here is how I shifted them in the test tank. All you need is a common DPDT toggle switch. Consult your lawyer before doing it on a boat. Also, the bottom view of an Evinrude push button switch.

    upload pictures

    windows 7 screenshot

    frankr
    frankr
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #58524

    Before you ask, yes, using the toggle switch, it goes directly between forward & reverse. You can do that with the push button switch too.
    In fact that was an advertised feature (for easy docking). But not really, the clutch dog in the lower unit goes through neutral.

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
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    #58529

    Bought Crestliner Dane (pretty solid, from what I can see, welded aluminum runabout), decent trailer, motor as discussed, for $200. Haven’t a clue about the overall condition of the motor, but if no good I can hardly complain. Rig seems to have only the usual old-boat problems of bodged wiring and not sitting properly on trailer. Even has a lifting kicker bracket for the get-home auxiliary. My long-term plan is a Homelite/Bearcat when I find one at bottom-feeder price. Meanwhile, if this v4 doesn’t run, I’ll try one of my 40 hp big twins. Probably a little weak for a 700 lb boat, but …

    Gearcase had maybe a tablespoon of water in it. Lube came out black but doesn’t seem noticeably gritty or contaminated. Is black normal?

    There are two black rubbery sleeves near where the solenoid leads emerge from the leg. Are these some sort of disconnect?

    This is the control box that came with boat. (Seller was open about it not being compatible with motor.) Disregarding other issues, could this be used to operate the throttle?

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
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    #58534

    One more question and I promise to shut up for a while. Can I run this motor on muffs like a stern drive?

    Alan

    frankr
    frankr
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #58537

    The throttle part would work, but that’s about all. It has the wrong elect cable.

    Darkish oil is pretty normal. But dirty oil is black also. We’re talking about microscopic dirt here, not chunks. The micro stuff is what screws it up.

    Slide those rubber sleeves back to expose the wire disconnects. Make sure you tie something onto the wires to aid in pulling them back up when reinstalling

    We haven’t left you yet

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
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    #58539

    Another question then:

    The plugs I found in the motor are L77JC4–new looking. According to the "shop evinrude" site the correct plug is QL77J4C. I believe the Q means a resistor plug. There is also a surface gap plug approved: L76V. The black box installed is "Bombardier amplifier assembly" P/N 389550, Wabash Magnetics. I know resistor plugs can play a role in suppressing electrical noise and transients, so am wondering if the "Q" is necessary/important.

    I also found this from Champion: ""Outboard marine Capacitive Discharge Ignition systems (CDI) such as used on some Johnson and Evinrude marine engines require a special inductive type resistor spark plug (such as a Champion Q-type). This is because these type of ignitions systems produces less voltage; use of non-inductive type plugs can cause misfires and poor performance."

    Guidance from the experts?

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
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    #58551

    Compression: Throttles tied open, all plugs out, oil can shot of oil in each cylinder:
    #1 126
    #2 123
    #3 125
    #4 122

    I don’t know what’s normal for these.

    On the other hand, I can’t get it to shift, at least not at cranking speed. I tried thumping on the gearcase with a plastic hammer while cranking. Refined technique, no? It won’d move out of forward, at least at cranking speed.\

    How much of a project is it to open and reassemble the gearcase of one of these?

    frankr
    frankr
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #58554

    Those L77JC4 (non-resistor) plugs were a life-saver when they came out back in the day. Actually they were L77J4J back then, if I remember correctly. Yes, they have now been replaced by the Q plugs which have inductive suppressors instead of resistors. In my not so humble opinion, the surface gap plugs don’t even make good landfill.

    It should shift at cranking speed.

    Avatar
    fleetwin
    US Member - 2 Years
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    #58555

    OK, I think you better slow down a bit….Please don’t rip that thing apart, I don’t think there is much wrong with it.
    First, the gearcase. The dark colored lube is probably the old OMC type C, which was dark. The newer OMC premium blend lube is gold in color. I don’t know if I would tear the gearcase down because of a few drops of water. Did you refill with OMC premium blend? If so, please know the gearcase will not shift without 12 volts being applied to one/both of the shift leads coming up from the gearcase. And, the gearcase will not shift unless the driveshaft is spinning. The driveshaft must be spinning to turn the oil pump which develops oil pressure to push the clutch dog out of forward gear. The control box in your picture will not work on your engine.
    The compression seems normal for that engine. You do not need to use the Q plugs on this engine, the regular L77JC4 plugs will work fine. Champions notes refer to ignition systems used on much newer engines. Does the engine have spark? You will have to run a positive jumper lead to the powerpack terminal on the board so it is powered up while cranking to see if it has spark.

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 822
    Topics: 130
    #58567
    quote fleetwin:

    OK, I think you better slow down a bit….Please don’t rip that thing apart, I don’t think there is much wrong with it.

    Maybe so, but I proceeded carefully in testing the solenoids electrically, and the thing would not shift while cranking, with leads energized. It just stayed in forward.

    First, the gearcase. The dark colored lube is probably the old OMC type C, which was dark. The newer OMC premium blend lube is gold in color. I don’t know if I would tear the gearcase down because of a few drops of water.

    Neither would I. But the motor isn’t very useful if it won’t shift.

    Did you refill with OMC premium blend?

    No, I filled it with some hydrostatic transmission fluid I had on hand. I thought a flush and testing might be in order before buying the expensive stuff.

    If so, please know the gearcase will not shift without 12 volts being applied to one/both of the shift leads coming up from the gearcase. And, the gearcase will not shift unless the driveshaft is spinning. The driveshaft must be spinning to turn the oil pump which develops oil pressure to push the clutch dog out of forward gear.

    Yes. As far as I know there are no test ports on this box to check pressures, so my diagnostic possibilities are limited.

    The control box in your picture will not work on your engine.

    Yes.

    The compression seems normal for that engine. You do not need to use the Q plugs on this engine, the regular L77JC4 plugs will work fine. Champions notes refer to ignition systems used on much newer engines.

    Good. Thanks.

    Does the engine have spark? You will have to run a positive jumper lead to the powerpack terminal on the board so it is powered up while cranking to see if it has spark.

    Don’t know. Have left fuel and spark to last because I know I can get them working if the powerhead and gearcase are serviceable. But I would like to know what that "amplifier" actually is.

    Thanks!

    Alan

    frankr
    frankr
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #58575

    The amplifier takes 12V from the battery and boosts (amplifies) it to about 300V, and the 300V is stored in a capacitor until time to fire.
    The breaker points tell it when to fire. When a set of points opens, it is sensed by the amplifier and it discharges that stored 300V to the coil primary. That 300V discharge is the "CD" in "Capacitor Discharge Ignition".
    Like any other coil, the primary winding induces a high voltage in the secondary, which is sent to the spark plug.

    The advantage is the coil is operating on 300V pulses instead of the normal 6V on a conventional automotive system. The pulses are much faster and give a very high voltage and fast spark. This helps the plugs to fire even if gooped up with carbon and oil.

    Unfortunately, they coupled it with a crappy distributor.

    BTW, the system is perfectly capable of running backwards. That reverse cut-out ring we’ve mentioned prevents that.

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
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    Topics: 130
    #58580

    So it’s a "normal" capacitive discharge ignition….
    By the way, what’s the best way to do the flywheel nut on these? No obvious way to use a strap wrench. Maybe my impact wrench will take it off, but torquing it on will require holding.

    I’m hung up on the non-shifting.

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
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    Topics: 130
    #58582

    "BTW, the system is perfectly capable of running backwards. That reverse cut-out ring we’ve mentioned prevents that."

    Hmmm, that could be the solution to the gearcase problem: Convert it into a dockbuster.

    frankr
    frankr
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 4157
    Topics: 43
    #58586
    quote amuller:

    So it’s a “normal” capacitive discharge ignition….
    By the way, what’s the best way to do the flywheel nut on these? No obvious way to use a strap wrench. Maybe my impact wrench will take it off, but torquing it on will require holding.

    Get a better strap wrench. Seriously, you should be able to use it. Or you could get one of those automotive flywheel turner tools. Or you could do like the rest of us and stick a big screwdriver between the flywheel gear and starter pinion. But you will never get us to admit that. No Sir. 😯

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    amuller
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 822
    Topics: 130
    #58587

    I downloaded an OMC manual which is full of interesting advice and opinions, some of which make good sense, others …… The author specifically warns against the big screwdriver/Starter pinion approach…..

    Hmmm, I have these pipe tongs: Chain loop and about a four foot handle. That ought to do it, no?

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