Tagged: 1988 Johnson 9.9 NO spark.
June 28, 2019 at 1:44 pm #178120
I am working on an 1988, 9.9 that has no fire. First I checked the ground on the power pack, cleaned it…no go. Then unhooked the kill switch…no go. Then I replaced the stator coil….no go. Then a new power pack…STILL no fire. Can it be the trigger sensor or what the heck is going on here? Any suggestions?? It just sat over the winter and now no fire.
US Member - 1 Year
Topics: 43June 29, 2019 at 5:35 pm #178190
Internal break in one of the wires between stator plate and power pack?June 29, 2019 at 8:42 pm #178205
Yes, that could be Frank. I took the stator plate off and checked where the wires go through the plate but no luck. There is a covering or plastic tube over the wiring…it is going to have to come off I guess. The ignition coils test good, the chances of BOTH going bad over the winter is next to nil anyway. I have replaced stator coil, power pack and plug wires AND cut the kill switch wire to the power pack and unhooked the kill switch ground wire. I can’t find any info on the trigger sensor…that is the only thing left in the stator. The magnet is STRONG so….never seen anything like it.
US Member - 1 Year
Topics: 43June 29, 2019 at 8:54 pm #178207
Test sensor with a multimeter. Should show 15-20 Ohms—I think. Fact check me on that.June 29, 2019 at 8:56 pm #178208
Before unnecessarily replacing expensive parts, a little bit of trouble shooting with an ohmmeter will help to narrow down what is wrong. I don’t have the specs in front of me at the moment but there are given values for the charge coil and sensor coil. I’ll dig around later and see if I can find them for you.
Another suspicious place to check is inside the Amphenol connector(s) coming from the mag plate. The pins inside can get corroded or get pushed back inside the connector making for a no go situation.June 29, 2019 at 9:18 pm #178211
Thanks for the replies. I can’t fact check the OHM values for the trigger sensor as I can’t find anything on it. It is an odd sensor on this 1988 and NO info on it, I have looked and looked. The stator coil is new so HOPEFULLY that is ruled out. I looked in the 5 pin plug for the new power pack and it looks fine….no corrosion. It ran in the fall and not in the spring so that would rule out any pin being out of place….it was never touched.June 29, 2019 at 11:00 pm #178216
I found this chart over at https://www.outboardignition.com/page40.asp and it gives the values of your mags components. The 583387 trigger (sensor) coil is a common one and it was used from 1980 – 2017 at least on 4.5 thru 60 horse motors.
Look inside your five pin connector and you will see a tiny letter next to each pin. Here’s where a magnifying glass or a loup comes in handy. To test the sensor coils resistance, you’ll have to probe the ‘B’ and ‘C’ terminals to get an ohm reading. Any reading from ‘C’ to ground indicates the coil or leads are shorted to ground and it will need repairs or replacing.
The ‘A’ and ‘D’ terminals are used for testing the charge coils resistance. Any reading from ‘A’ to ground indicates the coil or leads are shorted requiring repair or replacement but you’ve already done that.
There are other tests for the components and the power pack but they require specialised, as in expensive, equipment which we probably don’t have.
It will be interesting to check your old charge coil and if it falls in that 450 – 600 ohm range, you’ll at least have a good spare one. Strange, but the book I’m looking at says it should read 575 ohms +/- 75 while it should read 475 ohms +/- 75 for electric start models. Nope, I don’t know why either.
You must be logged in to access attached files.June 30, 2019 at 5:50 am #178220
Thank you for that info Mumbles. I will get on it today. I did test the stator coil and it is 565 so that is a good spare. I did NOT know about the pins being lettered so that is a BIG help. THIS is why PRE 1976 or so with good compression is more valuable to me than a new one.June 30, 2019 at 12:53 pm #178233
So I tested the pin terminal today, when testing B and C terminals I get a reading of 15 to start and it goes all the way up to 55….one point at a time, then it drops back one point at a time to 25 then back up for a while then back down. You can’t get a steady reading….up and down and back up. I am no electrician but that don’t seem right to me.
US Member - 2 Years
Topics: 32June 30, 2019 at 6:12 pm #178239
Well, I may not be following everything correctly, but it would seem as though we are missing something here….First, when you did the stop switch elimination test, did you just disconnect the stop switch ground, or did you push the black stop lead out of the amphenol connector? Simply disconnecting the stop switch ground does not eliminate the switch from the circuit, you must push the stop switch lead out of the amphenol connector….You really need the ampenol tools to do this properly, please don’t just cut the leads.
OK, later I read you did actually cut the stop switch lead, but still not spark…You have replaced the powerpack and the charge coil which didn’t help, correct? Those amphenol connections can be a real bugger for sure. I guess I would push all the wires out of the connectors to make sure the leads aren’t broken, and the pins/sockets are located correctly. And, sure doesn’t seem likely that both coils are bad….Have you checked the sensor with an ohm meter and done the output tests with the peak reading voltmeter? How about the air gap of the two components? Are you sure you haven’t crossed one of the connections inadvertently?
Has the engine been overheated? Any signs of melted/pinched wiring?
Again, I fear we are missing something relatively simple here….Like you said, the engine ran OK last year, now no spark…The sensor is a simple winding that doesn’t fail usually, except if it is damaged physically by the flywheel…June 30, 2019 at 6:36 pm #178240
I took the stator plate of, took the clamp under it off to see if a wire had cut through…nothing. I took the ignition coils off the power head and tested them, they are both in spec, even if they were bad under load they would fire or at least one would cranking over. When I replaced the STATOR COIL I matched wire color code. I used the chart above that Mumbles posted and connected a ohm meter to pins B and C in the 5 pin plug and am getting an erratic reading starting at 15 ohms and go to 55 ohms up and then down and then back up. Is that normal? The outboard was never touched during the winter, just put in a shed like it had been for years before. I looked in the 5 pin plug and there is no loose pin or wire or corrosion. As for the kill switch I set my meter on continuity setting and hooked it to the ground that went to the block and the wire that goes to the 5 pin plug. with the clip in …NO continuity….clip out continuity… so that is working. The NEW power pack can only plug into the 5 pin plug one way and the two leads that go to the coils are the same color code as the old one and are hooked up properly. STILL no spark. I made up new plug wires…tested them for continuity and tried them….no spark.June 30, 2019 at 6:48 pm #178241
A note about the air gap…. I have done DOZENS of the old magneto type coils so I know to set the coil to be flush with the block under the coil laminate as not to hit the magnet when rotating so have about 10 to 12 thousands air gap. I am not new to working on these things but am stumped here.June 30, 2019 at 7:16 pm #178242
am getting an erratic reading starting at 15 ohms and go to 55 ohms up and then down and then back up. Is that normal?
No! It should be a steady reading within the given values. I think you’ve narrowed your problem down to the sensor coil or its wiring.
Just a note but the wires tend to break internally where they make a sharp bend under the cover plate holding them down to the armature plate. The outside insulation will look good but the wire inside can be broken and hanging on by a string. This might give the erratic readings. Wiggling the wires or turning the mag plate with the meter hooked will usually show a reading all over the place if
a wire is broken inside and making intermittent contact.
Someone had this same issue here a while back and narrowed it down to a bad wire in this area.. I’ll see if I can find that topic and post a link to it.June 30, 2019 at 7:53 pm #178250
Ok I read the 6 HP post and that sounds VERY possible. I did have that plate off that holds the wires but just checked for chafed wires….never thought about a break. There was a zip tie near that clamp shown in the picture through the mag plate and around the wire harness so… to tight maybe…..broke a wire maybe??? Yes Mumbles I thought that reading should be a stable reading so if it is a broken wire I am down to the two going to the trigger sensor at least. Back to it tomorrow. THANK YOU to all that are taking the time to help me here, just a great place to find intelligent opinion and suggestions. As I said before this motor is GOING TO FIRE sooner….or later.
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