Home Forum Ask A Member 25/35 impeller housing know-how

Viewing 10 posts - 11 through 20 (of 31 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #24221
    fleetwin
    Participant

      US Member - 2 Years

      I guess we are all saying the same thing, I think, just different ways. The SS baffle/plate is between the outer exhaust cover and the exhaust manifold itself:
      #48
      http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johns … +Crankcase
      So, what Dan is saying is that exhaust back pressure might stop cooling water from flowing if this baffle/plate was rusted through. I agree except that I would think you would be getting water into the powerhead if this baffle was rusted through, BUT anything IS possible.
      The plastic guide is not used on all models/years:
      #114
      http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johns … sing-35+Hp
      This plastic piece is simply a guide to help correctly install/guide the water tube into/through the upper grommet during installation. True, it will melt during an overheat, but it won’t block/clog the cooling system. The upper grommet may get crushed by salt/melt, but it sounds like this engine is a fresh water engine that has not been severely overheated.
      My money is on a messed up/melted water pump, misinstalled/bent/kinked water tube. I’m thinking the gearcase to SS impeller plate mating surface is OK because you state this is a fresh water engine.
      The later model engines use a plastic washer as a guide instead of the plastic guide:
      #72
      http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johns … n=Gearcase
      The picture is misleading because the shoulder on the water tube is actually on top of the water tube and secures the plastic washer/guide in position. Is the impeller housing spacer/orings in place?
      #64
      This style water pump does not have a conventional seal in the plastic housing and should have the little vent hole you are talking about. You mention installing a new impeller, did you use OEM or aftermarket? You may want to invest in the complete BRP water pump kit with the plastic housing to ensure none of the things Dan mentioned about the water pump is an issue.
      Finally, please do not attempt to replace the front half of the crankcase to take care of the messed up threads. These parts are a matched set, and can not be mixed/matched with pieces from other engines.

      #24224
      johnyrude200
      Participant

        Would that water hole be in the copper water tube orifice like the older generation 18-20-25 impeller housings? I didnt see one ladt night, but would much rather re-inspect before tearing this motor completely apart.

        #24225
        chris-p
        Participant

          A guy brought over an ’86 30 hp today. Needed a water pump job, told him to go get something to eat and come back in an hour.

          Well I took the plastic keeper off for the shift rod, and it FLEW across the shop, never to be found.

          Just my luck I have no other newer 30s around my house. Guess he has to wait till Monday when the dealer opens 🙂

          Its probably somewhere with all the points clips.

          #24226
          johnyrude200
          Participant

            Since this was my 1st gearcase that uses the keeper (my 2014 Etec has the same housing, but not the same configuration), it amazes me that a little piece of plastic is literally what a 80-year old company (at the time) would entrust the safety of it’s customers steering to.

            Guessing ENGINEERS don’t think like NORMAL people…

            #24227
            dan-in-tn
            Participant

              US Member - 1 Year (includes $3 online payment fee)

              That SS baffle plate is not going to rust through. I have never seen one burn through either. It is actually pretty thick, but it warps and pulls away from the gaskets. You will know when you see a warped one. This causes the exhaust pulses to enter the water flow and it overcomes the pumping action of the pump. It is not enough that it burns up the pump, but it keeps the powerhead from getting enough water to cool properly. I do agree something else happens first! Someone will go in and put in an impeller, but that will not cure the whole problem. The water pump is fairly complicated in it construction and assembly. As Don said the shift shaft running thru the middle of it doesn’t help. These little motors have been prone to overheat since the beginning. I don’t know of any motor OMC engine ever made that has a fiberous washer between the ignition coil and the head. It’s because this motor has an overheat history and will get hot enough to melt the coils off the engine! That’s hot. This motor is also a Siamese cylinder motor. It has no full water passage between the cylinder. If gotten hot enough the cylinder sleeves will separate from the aluminum casting. If that happens you need to go looking for another block. That cylinder will not cool properly from that point on.

              Dan in TN

              #24228
              dan-in-tn
              Participant

                US Member - 1 Year (includes $3 online payment fee)

                Did you mean shifting or steering. Not aware steering is involved here. The first thing I do when pulling a gearcase for the first time is shoeshine the shift shaft top and bottom with belt emory tape. You have to get all of the paint out of the way for the gland nuts to move up and down the shift shafts to remove the plastic clips easily. Yes, they are a pain in the butt! As far as the connection, the valves in your car have been held in place that way for over 100 years, though not plastic keepers. Not near the strain here as the valves in your car nor the heat!

                Dan in TN

                #24232
                fleetwin
                Participant

                  US Member - 2 Years

                  Yeah, hate the silly design, but the plastic keepers aren’t gonna fail.

                  #24241
                  chris-p
                  Participant

                    Just wish they were hot pink or something easier to see on a concrete floor 😉

                    #24294
                    johnyrude200
                    Participant
                      quote fleetwin:

                      My money is on a messed up/melted water pump, misinstalled/bent/kinked water tube. I’m thinking the gearcase to SS impeller plate mating surface is OK because you state this is a fresh water engine.

                      Is the impeller housing spacer/orings in place?
                      #64
                      This style water pump does not have a conventional seal in the plastic housing and should have the little vent hole you are talking about. You mention installing a new impeller, did you use OEM or aftermarket? You may want to invest in the complete BRP water pump kit with the plastic housing to ensure none of the things Dan mentioned about the water pump is an issue.

                      I didn’t get to the motor today, because I was busy tearing apart a 1985 20hp to ready the transplant of this powerhead onto another pan/leg for next season and just convert it over to a permanent manual start.

                      A couple of questions. I noticed upon first inspection that both coils were melted onto the powerhead. I have seen this on motors before, it is the type of coil that is the black plastic encased coil, and I have seen them partially melted on motors where they were installed without the fiber washer. I always install these fiber and star washers according to the order in the service manual…and to help prevent melting issues with the coil grounding straps. The ignition system works fine on this motor (1/2 bright spark…so strong it was jumping out of the boot to the block when I gaped the spark tester too far….). This motor doesn’t show discoloration or paint flaking anywhere, and still has very high compression. Who knows what the history of it is. I know it had been sitting in an indoor garage for a long time though.

                      Where is the little vent hole in the water pump? This impeller housing has a metal cup inside the plastic housing.

                      Tomorrow I will run further tests to zero in on where the water blockage is…1st, run the gearcase off the motor with my drill to see if it’s pumping water…then 2nd, hook up a garden hose to the water pickup tube on the motor with the gearcase off to see if it will accept active water at all.

                      By the end of the day I hope to have the issue identified, because I’ll be pulling the powerhead off and installing onto a dedicated pan/leg for only manual start since the electric start bracket on the front of the crank is beyond salvage.

                      I happen to have another 35hp powerhead in good shape in stock, so I will do a swap out on the original leg/pan to get this order completed.

                      Can anyone recommend where to find the special 1/2 inch offset wrench recommended for unscrewing the top two powerhead to exhaust housing screws?
                      I have been able to mickey mouse a regular wrench being held with vice grips, but it sure would be nice to have the right wrench for this job. The port side screw in particular is pretty tough to get at, even with the vertical throttle arm and solenoid removed.

                      #24298
                      fleetwin
                      Participant

                        US Member - 2 Years

                        Well, it is hard to describe where the little vent hole is on paper, but you should be able to see the vent hole in the SS cup which will direct you to where the vent hole should be in the plastic housing.
                        I’m not sure what your first question is, but those coils are pretty robust and will survive fine after being a little overheated/melted. Someone probably just ran that engine out of water, or perhaps caught a bag over the cooling water pick ups and didn’t overheat it that long/severely.
                        That OMC special offset wrench/tool is very expensive and kind of crude. Find a long/cheap 1/2" box wrench and gently heat/bend it to do the job on those three powerhead retaining nuts. Look at HF and buy a couple of wrenches just in case the first attempt doesn’t work out.

                      Viewing 10 posts - 11 through 20 (of 31 total)
                      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.