’57 Fastwin mystery – please help

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  • andy
    andy

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 12
    Topics: 5
    #201744

    Hello from Pawleys Island, SC! I’ve owned this motor 10 years. (when I first started running it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWK4meTGLoE ) When it was given to me it had sat in a barn many years. Then it sat in my garage over a year before I cleaned the carb, installed new ignition, impeller and resealed the lower unit. In all that time it was always free. In other words, the engine never locked up. I would pull the rope just to rotate the motor whenever I’d think about it. July of 2018 again had been sitting a year in the garage. When I went to pull the rope this time, it was locked up. I was able to free it up by turning the flywheel by hand. I put wd-40 in the bores and rotated it until it turned somewhat normally. It was still not perfectly smooth. I then installed new spark plugs, started it and ran it on the hose for a while. I changed the lower unit oil and ran it some more. It sounded and ran normally. Two weeks later I went to pull the rope and it was locked again. I didn’t touch it again until today. I pulled the recoil starter off and without much effort got it to move with a wrench on the flywheel nut. I pulled the plugs and bypass covers and see nothing abnormal in the bores or on the pistons or rings. After around 10 minutes of working it back and forth, I was able to get her to turn almost totally smooth with the plugs out. There’s one spot that has the slightest resistance. Anyone experience this or have any ideas? Something obviously changed and it wasn’t the storage.
    Thanks,
    Andy

    '48 Zephyr, restored '06, runs great
    '54 Fastwin, restored '09, runs great
    '57 Fastwin, unrestored, locked up in 2018

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    billw

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 1159
    Topics: 39
    #201750

    Fastwins get locked up all the time. Don’t know why the power heads do that. Maybe the carbon seal on the bottom of the crank has let go. Maybe the head gasket is leaking a bit. Maybe the exhaust cover is leaking, although I never really saw that one on an FD/Fastwin, even in salt water. IS yours in salt water? If so, it could be the water jackets are failing. Speculation. First, divide and conquer: Pull off the lower unit and make sure it’s not the LOWER unit that is binding….Then report back.

    Long live American manufacturing!

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Avatarbillw.
    frankr
    frankr

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 5016
    Topics: 48
    #201753

    I know where Pawleys Island is—-right slap on the Atlantic Ocean. And I’ve got a pretty good idea what’s wrong with your motor. Salt water is getting into the powerhead. Not wanting to be a pessimist, but your motor probably is terminal. billw probably aced it. The three most likely water intrusion routes are the lower crankshaft carbon seal, and the head gasket and exhaust cover gaskets. And yes, the inner exhaust cover may have a pin hole corroded through it, which will squirt water right into the exhaust ports.

    No matter what the leak is from, the water getting into the crankcase will rust the roller bearings over nite, and the motor is junk. You might get it freed up, and even run it, but if those bearings are damaged it WILL fail.

    Sorry ’bout that.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by frankrfrankr.
    andy
    andy

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 12
    Topics: 5
    #201773

    I agree about the water intrusion and yes Pawleys Island is on the Atlantic. It’s weird but the mainland, where I live, has the same name as the island itself. The other thing is I live on what’s technically a peninsula. I’m 1.3 miles to the ocean and 2.5 miles to the Intracoastal Waterway/Waccamaw River. The river is fresh here unless there’s a really bad drought when it gets slightly brackish on high tides. I do 99.5% of my boating in fresh water and has been a really long time since this motor has seen salt. The previous owner lived on the river but I can’t really say if they ever took it over to the island and used it in the salt water creeks over there. That said I realize the crank could be trashed. It seems like there was only a very small amount of water, just enough to stick a ring or two. The first thing I did today was to remove the lower unit. It’s free. I suppose if it is the carbon seal, the water was sucked in right onto the crank. It so, that’s junk. Did they make the inner exhaust cover out of stainless in ’57? I’m going to do some experimenting with compressed air to see if I can locate the leak.

    Thank you both for the advice and info!
    Andy

    '48 Zephyr, restored '06, runs great
    '54 Fastwin, restored '09, runs great
    '57 Fastwin, unrestored, locked up in 2018

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by andyandy.
    frankr
    frankr

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 5016
    Topics: 48
    #201777

    I can’t say for sure if the cover is stainless or not. But you can tell simply looking at the edge, between the gaskets. If it is thin, about like a credit card, it is stainless. But if about 1/8′ thick, aluminum.

    Good luck with your motor. It sounds like you know what you are doing. I live here on the Gulf Coast of Florida, so been there, done that.

    andy
    andy

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 12
    Topics: 5
    #201783

    I’m pretty sure the inner cover is aluminum. Does this look like the carbon seal has been leaking? I’ve never had one leak so I really don’t know what evidence can be seen here if any.

    57_bottom_seal2

    '48 Zephyr, restored '06, runs great
    '54 Fastwin, restored '09, runs great
    '57 Fastwin, unrestored, locked up in 2018

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by MumblesMumbles.
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    frankr
    frankr

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 5016
    Topics: 48
    #201785

    Can’t tell. We are looking at the bottom of the baffle plate, and can’t see the seal.

    andy
    andy

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 12
    Topics: 5
    #201787

    Thank you for your help. I need to either pull the power head or trash it and trashing it is just not in my blood. The problem is most of the fasteners are going to be frozen and some will surely break. I guess I’ll just tear into it and work on it as time and patience allow.

    '48 Zephyr, restored '06, runs great
    '54 Fastwin, restored '09, runs great
    '57 Fastwin, unrestored, locked up in 2018

    Avatar
    billw

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 1159
    Topics: 39
    #201806

    You never know for sure whether a power head is trashed or not, until you take it all apart. Yeah, most times it is, but…..Recently I received an FD from member Fleetwin. The flywheel didn’t even ROCK, never mind turn. It was pretty obvious that the motor had seen salt. Even the steering was frozen. I wanted it mostly for the lower unit; but I’m not one to waste a single part, either. Based on previous experience, it was against my better judgement to even take the power head apart. To my surprise, when I did, I found that I could reuse every single bearing, worked really carefully and freed the rings and now have a power head that will be a great runner. Okay, the crank had some discoloration but no pits.

    What I am trying to say is, if you like that Fastwin, don’t count it out just yet. If it were mine, I would first start by getting it running in a barrel on 24:1 mix, then fog it out, to preserve what’s left.. Then pull the power head and look at the carbon seal. If it’s broken, there you go. If the o-ring inside it is rock hard, maybe that’s all the problem is. At that point, you can decide whether to go further.

    Regarding the my salty FD, this was the first time I tried using a small, battery-powered impact gun (Milwaukee) and a Snap-On, straight blade screw driver bit. I was AMAZED at how the very corroded, 1/4″ screws mostly just backed right out. In all the power head mounting screws and exhaust cover screws, I only broke ONE.

    Long live American manufacturing!

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Avatarbillw.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Avatarbillw.
    andy
    andy

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 12
    Topics: 5
    #202138

    Bill,
    This motor ran perfectly when I stored it in 2017. Then in 2018 when I found it locked up, I easily got it free, then ran it on the hose for a while and it ran great. Two weeks later, it was locked up again. I freed it up again easily last Saturday. My theory is the inner exhaust cover has a pinhole that allowed a small amount of water into a cylinder causing a ring or two to stick. If that’s correct, the crank might be just fine. My current plan is to confirm or deny a bad inner exhaust cover and reevaluate. I was able to remove the rear lower motor cover which allows access to the bottom two bolts that fasten the exhaust cover. The top 3 bolts came out but the other 6 won’t budge even after soaking for 3 days. I’m considering experimenting with some muriatic acid. My theory is the aluminum oxide from the exhaust cover is preventing the penetrating oil from getting to the threads. I plan to apply a small amount of acid to the base of the bolt head in the hopes of dissolving the aluminum oxide. Has anyone tried this?

    '48 Zephyr, restored '06, runs great
    '54 Fastwin, restored '09, runs great
    '57 Fastwin, unrestored, locked up in 2018

    labrador-guy
    labrador-guy

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 341
    Topics: 37
    #202141

    Andy, heat those bolts up with your benzomatic torch.

    dale

    get’em wet don’t let’em set!

    andy
    andy

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 12
    Topics: 5
    #202155

    labrador-guy I’ve used heat to loosen frozen fasteners with success many times in the past. I used it on this motor when taking the fasteners out of the lower rear engine cover. The heat didn’t help at all in this case. I’ve seen this before. I do appreciate the help!

    '48 Zephyr, restored '06, runs great
    '54 Fastwin, restored '09, runs great
    '57 Fastwin, unrestored, locked up in 2018

    Avatar
    fleetwin

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 3049
    Topics: 42
    #202164

    Well, considering that you say the engine runs just fine once freed up, I will hazard a guess the head gasket/eroded cylinder sleeves are not an issue…But who knows. That leaves the lower seal and exhaust cover as suspects. I had a very interesting case once. A dealer reported a constant water leak into just one cylinder of a newer 88hp, even after new head and exhaust cover gaskets.
    I decided to remove the gearcase and run the engine a little bit to warm it up. I then attached a hose to the water tube and just ran water through the engine while I peaked into that cylinder with an inspection light….I noticed that water was dribbling into that cylinder through its exhaust ports. We pulled the exhaust cover again, everything “looked OK”, the dealer told me that the inner exhaust cover was actually new, he had replaced it during his last attempt to solve this issue. We found the block casting was actually porous around one of the ports allowing water from the cooling jacket to leak in. Needless to say, the only way to solve this was to replace the powerhead, but at least the mystery was solved. This was a newer engine with a casting flaw, had nothing to do with its salt water environment.
    So, you may want to try pulling your gearcase, and running water through the powerhead with a hose attached to the water tube. You will need a good inspection light, perhaps one of those inspection cameras, and much better eyes than mine. Once you have spotted the leak, be sure to run the engine a bit to expel any water. Needless to say, this method will not point out a leak caused by a bad lower seal though.
    I agree, your spray lube isn’t even reaching those stubborn exhaust cover screw threads. Like you say, the caked up salt has sealed up the screw shank quite well. You can try heat, but those darn screw heads get buggered up pretty quickly. You may just want to drill the head of the stuck screw(s) right off so the cover can be removed. Once the cover is off, the caked up corrosion will no longer be an issue. You can grab the protruding screw shank with vice grips, apply some more heat and patience, the broken screw stud will probably give in and come out for you.
    Good luck, I know how these mysteries become our most important missions sometimes…

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    crosbyman

    Canada Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 1541
    Topics: 189
    #202165

    ….after heating up the surrounding engine block

    then try deep freezing the bolt head only…… with a can of keyboard air blower ($4 Dollar store) held upside down for 15seconds (try not to inhale the stuff)

    then try with the1/4” impact driver

    Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by Avatarcrosbyman.
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    JOHN HOLBIK

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 39
    Topics: 2
    #202295

    you arent storing your motor with the power head lower than than the gear case.Cds are really prone to seizing if stored this way.

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