6039 Evinrude Speeditwin

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  • Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #186670

    Just started working on my $50 Tomahawk Speeditwin today.
    The flywheel would move back and forth about 1/8th turn.
    Pulled the spark plugs and observed that the pistons were actually
    moving. The lower unit dropped off without too much trouble,
    and then power head turned over nicely, and with nice compression.
    No rings were even stuck. Off to a good start.
    Then noted that the gear case cap was broken and nothing turned.
    Had to monkey a while getting the cap and prop shaft off.
    Only problem is, only half the prop shaft came out. It’s snapped off
    right at the shear pin. 🙁
    The rest of the broken prop shaft and gear wiggles all about and up
    and down about 1/2″, but wont come out of the gear case.
    The drive shaft will not turn. Not sure if the drive shaft has a ball bearing,
    but if so, it’s probably rusted solid like the prop shaft bearing.
    Any ideas on what could be keeping the rest of the prop shaft
    and gear from coming out of the case, or how to proceed?

    Thanks!

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    Prepare to be boarded!

    • This topic was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.
    • This topic was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.
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    garry-in-tampa
    Lifetime Member
    Replies: 3241
    Topics: 30
    #186683

    You have one of the last models built. As you found out, most outboards die of neglect. This is the parts book . . .

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    As you can see, the prop shaft thrust bearing and pinion bearing are rollers. You can drill a hole in the plug in front of the prop shaft to drive it out, and then tap the hole for a pipe plug. Dad built out the front of his to a knife edge, but he was a bug on speed.

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3208
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    #186687

    It sounds like you believe that the remaining prop shaft is stuck (rusted) in the inner bearing.
    I noted the factory, non threaded plug in the front of the gear case. Your “Plan” sounds
    like a good one. Will try it tomorrow, using a healthy dose of PB Blaster for good luck!
    Thanks Garry!

    Prepare to be boarded!

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    Samuel Phelps
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 89
    Topics: 16
    #186693

    Wow ! Looking at the pics really makes me appreciate the condition my Speeditwin was in when I started ..
    Looking forward to watching your progress . I’m sure I will learn a few things about mine ..

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #186699

    I’m hoping I’ll be able to find parts for the gear case, prop shaft, etc.
    Anyone know if the guts from the 1939 to 1950 Speeditwins all fit each other?
    I’m sure I’m going to learn “as I go” on this one. First Speeditwin for me!

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3208
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    #186745

    I got the remaining stuck and broken piece of the prop shaft out of the gear
    case today. I started to drill out the plug in the nose cone as Garry suggested,
    to pound the shaft out of the rusty bearing, but thought I’d drill and tap a
    hole in the plug for my slide hammer. I clamped the broken prop shaft
    in the vice while I used the slide hammer. The plug did not want to move,
    even with heat, but after a bit all the hammering pulled the remaining
    prop shaft guts loose. The drive shaft was frozen, as well as the drive
    gear on it’s end. Lots of lube and a pipe wrench got the drive shaft
    finally turning. I found a punch that would fit into the gear case drain
    hole, and I was able to pound “up” on the driveshaft, knocking it
    out of the gear.
    Now, the only problem is that the drive shafts tapered roller bearing’s race
    wont come out. There’s no way to knock the race out from top side,
    and no obvious way to dislodge it from the gear case that I see.
    The race appears to be sitting on brass shim stock. I tried prying
    with a screw driver but that was futile.
    Any ideas??
    Is the race suppose to be a loose fit, or press fit?

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    The prop shaft gear may be okay for Sunday use, but
    I need to get the broken prop shaft out of it. The inboard
    bearing removed easy from the shaft.
    Anyone have bearing numbers wrote down for the 6039 Speeditwins?
    I’ve only been able to read the number on one bearing so far……
    I think! Hopefully they’re still available.

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    Also, the impeller is stuck on the drive shaft. It appears
    to just ride on the drive shaft spline, as I see no pins
    or other types of keepers. Is this correct?
    I’ve seen no parts I need on EBay yet, so my have to try an
    ad. Thanks!

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    Prepare to be boarded!

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    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
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    #186824

    I was able to get all the guts apart from the lower unit today, other than
    the impeller that seems well attached to the drive shaft. It’s not critical
    that it comes off anyway, so I’ll leave well enough alone before I break it.

    I tried ice cubes in the gear case to shrink the drive shaft bearing race.
    I let the ice sit for about an hour, and kept adding. Then got the torch
    out and heated it up nice. Slapped the skeg down on the bench a
    bunch of times, and rapped on the housing hear the race with a wood
    mallet. …….. and…… Nothing happened!
    Therefore, I devised a tool to get at the hidden side of the race.
    A piece of bent, sharpened metal strap, that hooked the back of the race (barely).
    I helpd pressure on the strap tool with a big screw driver as I hammered
    on the tool via the drive shaft bore, with a tire iron. I alternated doing this
    and prying on the visible side of the race with a screw driver. Pretty
    soon it popped out!

    Now, the bigger challenge perhaps……. finding parts.
    The drive shaft tapered roller bearing and the prop shaft tapered roller bearing
    both use the same race / cup, but different bearings. Those I’ve found
    available so far. I’m not finding the two cones / bearings, but it may be
    I have the numbers wrong. Very hard to ready the numbers on them from
    all the rust and corrosion.

    The two said cups / races are 05185
    The Drive Shaft cone /bearing looks like 05079 (iffy on the middle 0 and the 9)
    The Prop Shaft cone / bearing looks like 05056
    The Drive Shaft ball bearing looks like ND 3205 (iffy on the 3)

    If anyone has bearing numbers for the 6039 Speeditwins in their database,
    I’d be grateful to know what’s correct.

    I suppose it’s theoretically possible to make a new prop shaft, I’m not sure I’d
    be successful. Were they machined first, then heat treated for hardness?

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    Prepare to be boarded!

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.
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    Northumberland
    Canada Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3
    Topics: 0
    #186840

    I’ve gone through the same exercise, although my model is earlier (6026) and there was lots of grease in the lower unit and nothing was too stuck. That said, I have yet to remove the cups. As for the bearings (cones & cups), I determined that the drive shaft on mine is 3/4″ dia. The forward end of the prop shaft is also 3/4″. In old bearing speak, that is a 05075 cone. The corresponding cup is 05185. My prop shaft is smaller on the prop end. It’s .66″ therefore the corresponding bearing cone 05066. It also uses the 05185 cup. Imperial taper bearings use a common numbering system so a “05075 cone is the same number in Timken, National, SKF. You can look up bearing dimensions in the CAD drawings available online from Timken. There are a few different 05185 variations, depending on if the outer edge of the cup is chamfered and if so, how much. Therefore it could be an 05185S or other. I am not a bearing expert – this is from my research. I believe your motor is the same from the comparisons I’ve made (by part number) while trying to find my own parts. Your prop shaft is probably straight and therefore 3/4”. If so, you need the 05075 not the 05066.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3208
    Topics: 889
    #186858

    I’ve gone through the same exercise, although my model is earlier (6026) and there was lots of grease in the lower unit and nothing was too stuck. That said, I have yet to remove the cups. As for the bearings (cones & cups), I determined that the drive shaft on mine is 3/4″ dia. The forward end of the prop shaft is also 3/4″. In old bearing speak, that is a 05075 cone. The corresponding cup is 05185. My prop shaft is smaller on the prop end. It’s .66″ therefore the corresponding bearing cone 05066. It also uses the 05185 cup. Imperial taper bearings use a common numbering system so a “05075 cone is the same number in Timken, National, SKF. You can look up bearing dimensions in the CAD drawings available online from Timken. There are a few different 05185 variations, depending on if the outer edge of the cup is chamfered and if so, how much. Therefore it could be an 05185S or other. I am not a bearing expert – this is from my research. I believe your motor is the same from the comparisons I’ve made (by part number) while trying to find my own parts. Your prop shaft is probably straight and therefore 3/4”. If so, you need the 05075 not the 05066.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Thanks for the “helpful” information on bearings. It sounds like my new
    Speeditwin has bigger shafts than yours.

    The major part of the prop shaft (which the ball bearing rides) is 25 mm, .984, or 63/64″ inch

    The small end of the prop shaft that the tapered roller bearing goes is 15.5 mm, or 669″

    My drive shaft is .785″

    From researching, I believe the correct prop shaft ball bearing I need is a 6205.

    The two tapered roller bearing cups are 05185

    I still need to do more research on the two tapered roller bearing cones. I’m not sure
    how to measure them to match up online specs, so I’ll have to study those CAD drawings.

    You say that a 05075 cone translates into fitting a 3/4″ shaft. Is the 75 on the end of
    the number telling me this, that “75” = .750″
    If so, what would one conclude the numbers to be for a .669″ (or 15.5mm) shaft be?
    050 _ _ ?

    Thanks again for the help!

    Prepare to be boarded!

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by Buccaneer Buccaneer.
    squierka39
    squierka39
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 369
    Topics: 26
    #186860

    Buc, parts for it shouldn’t be to hard to find. Put an ad on our own web page here. The speeditwin has always been a popular motor in the club. Someone will have what you need and they won’t be eBay sellers.

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3208
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    #186861

    Squier, I’ll probably put an ad on the classified. Just trying to figure out “bearings”
    this morning…….. out to the garage I go!

    Prepare to be boarded!

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    Northumberland
    Canada Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3
    Topics: 0
    #186883

    My lower unit only uses tapered bearings. From your post, yours is different. So speaking about the

    Here are the specs for the 05066/05185 cone/cup … https://cad.timken.com/item/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-imperi-2/05066-05185

    and here is a link for the specs on all the other sizes available. … https://cad.timken.com/viewitems/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-imperi-2

    The next one will let you search for all other types of Timken bearings.

    https://cad.timken.com/?_ga=2.138323504.1204381099.1573409853-130771345.1546634794

    Good luck!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3208
    Topics: 889
    #186894

    Thanks again for your help!
    I’ve been looking at Timken CAD drawings as you suggested, etc.,
    and believe I’m making progress.

    It seems I need
    Prop Shaft-
    – tapered roller and race 05066 / 05185
    -ball bearing 6205

    Drive Shaft
    -tapered roller and race 05079 – 05185

    The only thing I can’t get to jive on my measurements are the cone widths,
    but perhaps I’m measuring wrong. The Timken specs show both cones
    .566 wide. One of mine I measure at .600, and the other .625.
    I’m going back to the garage to see if I missed something there!

    My lower unit only uses tapered bearings. From your post, yours is different. So speaking about the

    Here are the specs for the 05066/05185 cone/cup … https://cad.timken.com/item/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-imperi-2/05066-05185

    and here is a link for the specs on all the other sizes available. … https://cad.timken.com/viewitems/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-imperi-2

    The next one will let you search for all other types of Timken bearings.

    https://cad.timken.com/?_ga=2.138323504.1204381099.1573409853-130771345.1546634794

    Good luck!

    Prepare to be boarded!

    David Bartlett
    David Bartlett
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 181
    Topics: 8
    #187013

    Tom, Bucc, Fred!

    I have that information somewhere regarding bearing numbers for the lower unit on the SpeediTwin/SpeediFour. The problem is it is in storage and not easy to get to. The next time I go there I will get it. You might come up with the answer prior to that, so I will keep watch.

    David

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3208
    Topics: 889
    #187061

    Tom, Bucc, Fred!

    I have that information somewhere regarding bearing numbers for the lower unit on the SpeediTwin/SpeediFour. The problem is it is in storage and not easy to get to. The next time I go there I will get it. You might come up with the answer prior to that, so I will keep watch.

    David

    David, David, David!
    I’ve ordered the bearings and races, so hopefully I got that correct.
    I was looking at an ad early this morning of the 1950 Speeditwin and Speedifour’s
    side by side. The lower units looked the same to me.
    Are the guts, i.e., prop shaft, gears, bearings, gear case cap, etc., the same as well?
    If so, that broadens the field of potential part donners for the prop shaft and gear case cap I need.
    I would be curious to know what you have for bearings on your list, but no big hurry now that
    I ordered already. Thanks.

    Prepare to be boarded!

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