EVINRUDE trigger coil

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Rick Robbins 4 days, 12 hours ago.

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    Rick Robbins
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 64
    Topics: 15
    #171159

    Is it possible to use a 4 pin trigger coil in place of a 5 pin on a 1994 Evinrude 70 hp? I could swap the connectors and re-locate the wires to the correct pins, but the 4 pin does not have the black with white stripe wire. Is there a way around that issue? What does that wire do?

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    dan-in-tn
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 977
    Topics: 103
    #171200

    The white/black stripe wire is for the QuickStart sensor from the cylinder head. 1994 model engines are equipped with QuickStart and incorporate different components from earlier engines without this feature. Mixing and matching would not be a good idea.

    Dan in TN

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    fleetwin
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 2516
    Topics: 29
    #171220

    Like Dan says, don’t attempt to make that swap, you might damage the pack also….
    What is the problem you are having and why do you suspect the sensor coils/trigger?
    This ignition system is very sensitive/delicate, can be tough to analyze the sensors with just an ohm meter….

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    Rick Robbins
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 64
    Topics: 15
    #171223

    I used the factory service manual and found that I had no voltages coming out of the trigger assy, then checked the resistance of each pin to pin D as instructed only to find that they all showed open and not shorted to gnd. I then took a coil assy with the wrong pins and read the resistance of the same pins. I now had the readings that were called for in the service manual. Seems pretty convincing that it’s a bad trigger assy, unless I’m missing something.

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    Rick Robbins
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 64
    Topics: 15
    #171224

    Thanks Dan for the advice! I’m going to look for the correct 5 wire plug and not use the one that’s incorrect.

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    fleetwin
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 2516
    Topics: 29
    #171226

    Not only is this part delicate/sensitive, but it is also expensive…..Why is it that you are replacing the sensor assembly? I just don’t want you to spend time/money replacing something that might not be busted…..

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    Rick Robbins
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 64
    Topics: 15
    #171238

    Followed the service manual troubleshooting directions for no spark on any cylinder. Everything was as expected until I came to the sensor coil. At that point I had .06 v instead of the required .3 v between pin D and pins A,B and C. Then the resistance checks were: D to E=446 ohms, D to A,B,C was measuring open on any scale. Since I was not getting the results the shop manual indicated, I figured the sensor coil was defunct. Couldn’t see continuing when I had results that were not what the manual called for. I’m open to suggestions that indicate I’m missing something. Not looking to spend money chasing an incorrect diagnosis.

    Mumbles
    Mumbles
    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 3923
    Topics: 395
    #171243

    Maybe first try probing the wires close to the sensor to confirm it is bad and it’s not one of the wires causing the issue. One wire may be broken inside the insulation giving false readings.

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    Rick Robbins
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 64
    Topics: 15
    #171246

    I’ll give it a shot. I see your listed as Canadien member, are you up there? We visit my cousins in Cape Breton in the fall.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Avatar Rick Robbins.
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    fleetwin
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 2516
    Topics: 29
    #171260

    Followed the service manual troubleshooting directions for no spark on any cylinder. Everything was as expected until I came to the sensor coil. At that point I had .06 v instead of the required .3 v between pin D and pins A,B and C. Then the resistance checks were: D to E=446 ohms, D to A,B,C was measuring open on any scale. Since I was not getting the results the shop manual indicated, I figured the sensor coil was defunct. Couldn’t see continuing when I had results that were not what the manual called for. I’m open to suggestions that indicate I’m missing something. Not looking to spend money chasing an incorrect diagnosis.

    Admittedly don’t have a manual close by, but remember the long/sensitive process. This part is so sensitive that I’m pretty sure the manual mentions different resistance readings that might be found on a few different brand ohm meters…I believe the term “impedence” was tossed around also. Were you using a peak reading voltmeter when checking the voltage output? If so, was it set to the proper scale? I won’t be home for a week or so, perhaps Dan can review the sensor troubleshooting procedures with you. In any event, the sensor works in two modes, quikstart and run. There are several tests to check output/resistance in both modes.
    In any event, the sensor would not be my “first bet” in a no spark situation, unless you found damaged/burned/melted leads. Did you do the key switch elimination test? Did you check the pack and coil ground connections with an ohm meter on the low scale? Those amphenol connections can be troublesome also, did you check each black plug to make sure none of the pins/sockets were bent or partially pushed out? Please don’t be offended if I ask if the emergency stop lanyard is properly attached to the control or switch on the dash….Happens to the best of us.
    Have you checked the powerpack charge coil resistance and output? If so, did you use a peak reading voltmeter? There is a “power coil” that provides power for the quikstart/SLOW systems also, but I’m pretty sure the engine will still spark even if the power coil is bad.
    Please know that I am not trying to question your troubleshooting methods/results, but the sensors would not be my first guess. I would surely want to eliminate all other simpler causes before replacing the sensor assy. Again, this part is very expensive, and most dealers would not offer a refund once it has been installed.
    When was the last time this engine had spark, what has changed since then? Is the battery fully charged? Low cranking speed can cause no spark due to low charge coil/sensor output.
    Don

    Mumbles
    Mumbles
    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 3923
    Topics: 395
    #171261

    I’ll give it a shot. I see your listed as Canadien member, are you up there? We visit my cousins in Cape Breton in the fall.

    Yeah, I’m here but I’m on the West Coast. Victoria BC

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    Rick Robbins
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 64
    Topics: 15
    #171262

    Thanks Fleetwin, I’ll give a short description of what I have.
    1- The motor is mounted on a stand with a 12v battery.
    2- I have no control box (will be looking for one eventually)
    3- Turning the motor over with a remote start connected to the solenoid.
    4- Have the trigger coil now removed and laying on the bench.
    5-Have a known good coil laying on the bench (4 pin-no quick start wire).
    6-compare similar wire ohm readings between both connectors and get manual stated results on the known good coil and the indicated 0 ohms on my removed coil.
    So these are both being measured on a bench, removed from the motor.
    I’m going to try Mumbles suggestion of piercing the wires near the coil to measure again to eliminate bad wires going to the connector.
    I appreciate the time you are taking to offer your experience and am not offended by any assistance I get here.
    Oh yeah, forgot to mention, my meter was set on it’s minimum setting for all the readings.
    I won’t be able to get back to it for a few days myself.
    Thanks to everyone for the responses so far,
    Rick

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    fleetwin
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 2516
    Topics: 29
    #171265

    OK, well if there is no control box hooked up to the engine, the safety key switch stop circuit should not be the issue. But, there could still be a short/ground in the powerpack stop lead somewhere in the engine harness. So, the pack black yellow lead should be disconnected/removed from its amphenol connector. Do you have the amphenol pin tools? If not, it can be kinda tough to work on this system. Please do not cut leads or pierce them in order to check outputs/resistances. Use isopropyl alcohol to lubricate the rubber connectors and make pin/socket removal installation easier. Do not spray any other lubes/oils into the rubber connectors, these can actually conduct electricity and cause nasty problems down the road.

    Fiinally, you cannot compare the quikstart sensors to the older plain sensors. The older sensors are simpler three simple windings connected together with a common lead. The newer quikstart sensors are relatively complex electronically, and will have no similar testing procedures or outputs. You have the flywheel and sensors removed from your engine, so check one more thing for me…..The flywheels on these engines had two sets of magnets, the large ones glued to the outer rim of the flywheel, and the little sensor magnet ring glued to the inner hub of the flywheel. Try grabbing the inner sensor magnet ring and twisting it on the inner hub. You should not be able to move the inner sensor magnet ring, the flywheel is NG if you can twist/move it….

    OK, so you just bought this engine and have never had it running. Was it sold to you as a running engine? If so, seems kinda strange that it has not spark…. For now, try finding the powerpack stop lead, it is a black lead with a yellow tracer. Some of the engines/powerpacks have a convenient stop lead that is connected with a single amphenol connector, making it easy to disconnect to eliminate possible ground issues when checking for spark.

    Again, unfortunately, I am away from home and service manuals, so don’t have pictures/procedures/test results handy for your engine. But, I think/hope the problem is a simpler one than the sensor assembly. Whenever I “get in too deep”, I always back up to “the basics”. The basics for this engine are checking powerpack and coil grounds. I “think” the ignition components are mounted on some sort of bracket on your engine, perhaps it is not grounded. Check all four grounds between their ground leads/straps and the negative battery cable post on the exhaust manifold. Using the low ohms scale, resistance readings should be less than one ohm. Next, I would disconnect/pull apart all those pesky amphenol connections to check for bent/pushed out pins/sockets, use the isopropyl alcohol in the rubber connectors to ease reassembly.

    Finally, I will ask something I should have asked first. How are you checking for spark? Are you using a spark tester or just watching for spark with the plugs/removed and grounded against the block?
    Again, please to shell out the big bucks for the new sensor ring just yet, and please do not pierce or cut leads in an effort to test outputs/resistances. The amphenol pin/socket tools are really a must for working on these systems. What manual are you using to check this system? The OMC manual, or some aftermarket one? Aftermarket manuals tend to be very generic and confusing. Feel free to post pictures of manual pages relating to troubleshooting, perhaps I can help walk you through some procedures while I am away…..Don

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by Avatar fleetwin.
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    Rick Robbins
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 64
    Topics: 15
    #171272

    It was given to me and was told it was fine. When I initially checked the spark (using a neon plug tester) I had spark on cyl 2. Cyl 1 plug wire was missing the coil end connector in the wire cap. Replaced that but then had no spark on any cyl. It’s an OMC factory manual.

    Maybe I should get one of the Amphenol plug wire removal tools before I go any further.

    I’ll get back to it on Mon or Tues and send manual page pictures at that time.

    Thanks again for digging into this for me, sounds like I might have led myself astray by comparing the two different sensor readings.

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    fleetwin
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 2516
    Topics: 29
    #171274

    The amphenol pin tools can be kinda pricey, but definitely worth having for working on the OMC CD systems. Perhaps there is a member in your area that would let you borrow them…..
    OK, you have a factory manual, that is great…
    Kind of sounds like the engine was running, but maybe a bit “cannibalized” before it was sold….Someone may have messed/swiped something that is keeping the engine from sparking.
    You are using neon testers to check spark, could be misleading….Sometimes the simplest test equipment, like a spark tester, can create a lot of confusion. I am assuming you don’t have a traditional spark tester with an adjustable air gap. These engines are supposed to produce a spark powerful enough to jump a 7/16-1/2″ gap while cranking at normal cranking speeds. Once the engine is back together, perhaps just check for spark with the plugs grounded to the block, just make sure there are no gas fumes/spray coming from the cylinders while cranking…..
    Feel free to post close up pictures of your engine, perhaps someone will spot something simple….
    Don

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