ignition kit prices

[crosbyman]

what is the difference between a 18-5199 (580321) condenser and the 18-5205 (581419) used on 18-20- 25 hp 1973-1976

in 2 sierra kits the price varies yet the points are the same in both kits only the condensers are different … the kit with the 18-05205 is cheaper

points aside the 18-5002 kit with the 18-5205 (a.k.a 581419) condenser is $21 CDN on amazon.ca

the 18-5006 kit with the 18-5199 condensers a.k.a. 580321 is $38.09 CDN on amazon.ca ( that is what I need)

so why the big spread ?? points being the same is this justified by offer and demand or could bould condensers work either way on 3–>9.5 hp

if so I’ll order the cheaper kit

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• This topic was modified 5 years ago by crosbyman.

[frankr]

Good question, and not sure I can answer it without some thinking back. But the short answer is different condenser capacities. The 18-20-25 of the years you mentioned have the infamous Lo-Tension magnetos, which have different technology that the old Universal Magnetos. To add to the confusion there is a third condenser, 580422.

[crosbyman]

if the cheaper kit for the 18 20 25 has a bigger capacitor would it matter much for a 5.5 7.5 9.5 etc… as it would offer more protection to the points on the kick back across the points ??

if my reasoning is ok would go cheap kit /biger capacitor for my needs …come to think of it I’ll go look ok the cap chart I have stored on my pc

UPDATE… found an answer on that marine c.o.m. place condenser 18-5205 / 581419 …replaces 580321 a.k.a. 18-5199

this kind of says either would work fine on the lower HP oldies down to 3hp and TN27 so I’ll try the cheaper kits & save $17 cdn

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• This reply was modified 5 years ago by crosbyman.

[Mumbles]

This might be a classic example of either pay now or pay later. If you don’t use the correct condenser for your system, the points will arc and pit prematurely and you’ll be replacing them again sooner than you should be. Just because the new condenser fits the mag plate and someone says it’s a correct replacement, doesn’t mean it is.

As for price, there is probably a low demand for the 581419 cap so it is priced to sell while they can charge more for the more common 580321 cap.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Mumbles.

[Steve D]

Crosbyman, I don’t mean to side-track from your original question, but this is kind of related…I have never understood the difference between the 1957-1961 18 HP motors and 1962 and up, that would require the later to use the 581419 when the earlier 18s use 580321. I’m not aware of any real difference between those motors.

I know it’s been said that the change in condensers was to resolve an intermittent miss problem on the larger engines.

So I’m guessing the later condenser could be used just fine on the 1957-1961 -18 horse- motors, but not on the smaller ones.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Steve D.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Steve D.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Steve D.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Steve D.

[crosbyman]

ok thanks all.….. for info I did order 2 kits based on info that they are in fact similar …condenser #s wise

http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=SIE18-5205

I will measure the capacitance when they arrive and compare them to the recommended 580321’s .

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[dan-in-tn]

I think you have forgotten something in your consideration? The coil was different in those years #580197 vs #580416 which has now supercedes to #584477. The #580197 has gone obsolete. The theory is that the #580197 produced more spark for higher compression engines? The coil needed a different cap to protect the points as Mumbles mentions.
The low tensin ignition motors take a different type #581207 set of points, but do take the #580419 condensor to match the driver coil. Now this is the best I can speculate as to how we have reached this point with tuneup kits. I would think the #175523 kits would be in low demand today (no #580197 coils available or hard to find). Hope that helps!

Dan in TN

[crosbyman]

OK you got me confused…. in the 3hp to 15HP class of JW TN AD CD QD FD all my oldies have or had below 80 psi (low compression) so sparking should not be a big issue (?)

anyhow… stuff is coming in from amazon. 580321’s is mostly what I need.. it seems and based on marinengine.com they are pretty much equivalent .

as to coils well I have been refurbishing with cheapy coils on eBay which are …as per eBay …. equivalent to 584477 & 582995 coils

in conclusion… i’ll try them out and see what happens

thanks all for inputs btw the 2 kits I ordered for 23 $CDN each …. just went back up to 37.18$ on amazon… go figure ???

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• This reply was modified 5 years ago by crosbyman.

[crosbyman]

update… found this in the Two Stroke TUNER’S HANDBOOK … ….for what it is worth

“I might mention here, too, that it is unlikely’ that you will find a condenser too large to give good results on the magneto. I have used the big Mallory condensers in many applications and find that there often is an improvement in ignition performance with the added capacitance. Why? Probably because the larger capacity reduces even further the slight arcing at the points, and gives a cleaner termination of the field coil current. ”

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[Mumbles]

Since the common replacement coil now is the 584477, I think it’s safe to say the 580321 cap is the correct one to compliment it. I’ve heard before that motors with long plug wires might benefit slightly with a cap with a slightly higher uF rating though.

Over capacitance and under capacitance are both hard on the points. One transfers metal from the stationary point to the moving point and vice versa and I’m sure the OMC engineers took this into consideration when specifying which cap to use. Since the classics are not race motors which get tuned frequently, reliability and longevity between tuneups was probably a priority.

Here’s something from a 1980 Johnson parts book. Note how the RD 18 – 23 motors originally used the 580197 coils but called for the 580321 caps. It looks like the FD’s had the caps and coils juggled around a bit to. Confused yet?

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Mumbles.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Mumbles.

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