Johnson S45 – Stuck – Which Piston to tap?

Home Forum Ask A Member Johnson S45 – Stuck – Which Piston to tap?

Currently, there are 0 users and 1 guest visiting this topic.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
  • hidditt
    hidditt

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 21
    Topics: 7
    #191889

    My daughter found an S-45 located in a friend’s field. She managed to snag it as a Father’s Day present for me, which was probably the best present I ever received. Beats a tie anyway. I’ve been polishing the S-45 (serial 123311 I think) and trying to straighten the tank enough to apply a new decal then hang it as a display at the cottage. The aluminum and the brass prop are pretty spectacular looking now. The S-45 is also about the same age as the 1933 cottage.

    The S-45 is stuck. I was hoping to get it to turn over before mounting it on the wall. I’ve been “soaking” it in Sea Foam Deep creep for a few months. I sprayed the penetrating oil into the spark plug holes and let it sit. Today I got inspired and took off the heads. It looks rusty in there but not badly pitted. I’ve been tapping away at the cylinders and using a 2′ breaker bar on the flywheel nut. No hard reefing or hammering. So far, no luck getting it freed up.

    The left piston and right piston are in the same position. Looking at a couple of opposed twin parts diagrams I see only one coil. Do these opposed twins fire at the same time? So, am I safe to assume that the pistons are both on either compression or exhaust stroke? Could I get a buddy and have both of us tap on opposing cylinders in unison? How about adding some torque on the flywheel nut if it can be determined the motor is on the exhaust stroke?

    Appreciate some feedback. Thanks in advance for your help.

    Avatar
    lyks2tinkr

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 335
    Topics: 41
    #191923

    Nice find.
    With stuck opposed twins, penetrating oil, heat and time are your friends.
    I would strongly advise against using a breaker bar and torque on the flywheel nut. That very possibly will lead to a broken crankshaft.
    What I would do is take the power head off and immerse it in PB Blaster or the penetrant of your choosing.
    If you can get the cylinders off far enough you may be able to get the rod bolts off which will make piston removal easier. If the cylinders are not bad off you may even be able to take it for a ride.
    Opposed twins fire at the same time.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Avatarlyks2tinkr.
    Avatar
    crosbyman

    Canada Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 1577
    Topics: 193
    #191937

    I unstuck a few by pulling the cyl head soaking with penetrating oil and…..firm tapping the cylinders alternately with a 1″ round wood peg

    hopefully you will see the oil level go down after a while indicating the rings are absorbing some oil .

    I scribed the flywheel and frame to establish a referrence point it was easier to see the initial but very small movements as pistons started to free up.

    there is no rushing it …. if the innards are not all rusted up….. hopefully it will free up

    patience brings joy.. as in my nice $50 turtle 9.5hp which was hard stuck and is now my favorite kicker supporting my 75hp ETEC

    IMG_1489

    IMG_1502

    Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Avatarcrosbyman.
    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by MumblesMumbles.
    Attachments:
    Mumbles
    Mumbles

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 4506
    Topics: 432
    #191941

    As mentioned, don’t reef on the flywheel nut or you chance breaking the end of the crankshaft off or splitting the flywheel. Try using a strap wrench instead on the flywheel itself.

    If both cylinders could be unbolted from the crankcase and the crankshaft can be turned, you might be able to undo the rod caps and then be able to remove each cylinder along with its piston. This way you could put it in a press and coax the pistons to move easier than trying to get both of them to move together while completely assembled.

    hidditt
    hidditt

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 21
    Topics: 7
    #192023

    Thanks all for the responses. I think I will try turning the motor on its side and put some penetrating oil to one cylinder and see if it disappears as Crosbyman suggested. It that works, I will then flip the motor 180 degrees and work on the other side, then try the tap tap tap. If all fails, I will give the cylinders a try.

    Avatar
    lyks2tinkr

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 335
    Topics: 41
    #192041

    It would be a good idea to spray the cylinders from the crankcase side as well. Good luck

    Tubs
    Tubs

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3018
    Topics: 168
    #192065

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by TubsTubs.
    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by TubsTubs.
    Avatar
    eltoquad

    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 193
    Topics: 48
    #192068

    Using Tubs method of removing cylinder will work as long as it’s not too tight. But you can break off cylinder mounting flange if you apply too much pressure with bolts.

    Tubs
    Tubs

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3018
    Topics: 168
    #192070

    Avatar
    george-emmanuel

    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 412
    Topics: 24
    #192096

    OK, so everyone is assuming the pistons are stuck. That may not be the case. The S-45 has a bunch of places where corrosion could prevent the motor from turning.

    First, remove the lower unit. Simple removal of 3 nuts and it should drop down. If the motor doesn’t turn and the propeller turns, that’s not it. Re-install the lower unit.
    Next remove the rotary valve on the front of the engine. Make sure you index the position of the gear when you remove it so you can install it as it was. If the motor doesn’t turn and the gear does, check the index of the gear and replace it.
    Since you’ve already, (at least I think you did), used penetrating oil in the cylinders, it could be the crankshaft is stuck. If the pistons are covering the exhaust ports (you can tell by removing the muffler) lay the engine on its back and fill the crankcase with 50:1 mix and let it soak. It will slowly work its way into the upper and lower mains—may take a couple of days. (Keep the engine away from everything for fire safety).
    If the pistons are not covering the exhaust ports, turn the engine upside down (resting on the flywheel) and fill the crankcase with 50:1. Wait till you see it leak through the upper main. Then turn the engine upright and again fill the crankcase with 50:1 and wait till it leaks through the bottom main. This way you will know that the mains are lubricated. Then carefully use the strap wrench and see if the flywheel will move. Perseverance pays off!

    hidditt
    hidditt

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 21
    Topics: 7
    #192396

    Good call on the lower unit. It cam off really easy and the prop won’t turn. There is absolutely no grease, oil or any petroleum based residue inside the gear housing. I’ve sprayed some Deep Creep in there and wonder if filling it with brake fluid or ATF would help. Nice deep reservoir to work with there. Should I be tapping on the prop with a rubber mallet? Too cold up here in Ontario for 50:1. See Photo 8433.

    Harmonic Balancer Idea for Unseizing a piston – got a harmonic balancer to fit on two of the S45 head bolts – wonder what you think about that as an alternative to tapping the cylinder head. See photo 8431

    Drive shaft looks seized to the midsection. Sprayed it with penetrating oil too. Just let it sit for a while or immerse in a bath of ….?

    Thanks for all the comments and assistance. I have no experience with this type of motor. Learning lots and enjoying every moment. (I’m a 50’s – 80’s Johnson/Evinrude guy mostly.)

    S45 - Harmonic Balancer used to help unseize piston (maybe)

    S45 Gear - Rusty and likely seized too

    S45 Lower unit top view - nice and clean in there

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by MumblesMumbles.
    Attachments:
    hidditt
    hidditt

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 21
    Topics: 7
    #192400

    FYI, the penetrating oil I put in the cylinder with the motor resting on its side did not get absorbed. It remained on top of the engine in the bore. It’s been sitting for about a week now.

    Avatar
    crosbyman

    Canada Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 1577
    Topics: 193
    #192401

    tried a wood peg and hammer method yet ??

    Joining AOMCI has priviledges 🙂

    hidditt
    hidditt

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 21
    Topics: 7
    #192570

    Yes, I have been tapping away. Now on both pistons. To no avail. I did get the carb/rotary valve and found the entire crank/piston rod/bushings to be completely rusted. Now have pentrating oil sprayed all over. I guess that is progress.

    The lower unit is really seized. I’ve sprayed it with pentrating oil, and am now trying to get it moving using a johnson bar and the prop nut (bottomed out on the shaft). Nothing doing so far.

    hidditt
    hidditt

    Canada Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 21
    Topics: 7
    #196483

    After a couple of months…

    The lower unit and rotary valve are now unstuck. The ball bearings in the rotary valve assembly have seen better days. One bearing is (sort of) working as it should, the other is still frozen.

    I’m trying to get the drive shaft off with the leg. I have loosened off the nuts that secure the leg to the lower power head crank case, but that leg is not going to come off easily. I am not sure how to get leverage on it to pull it off. Suggestions?

    The muffler has been removed and the exhaust ports are covered by the piston. I have been soaking the piston by filling the exhaust ports with ATF. I don’t want to use gas or diesel indoors. I will fill up the crank case with penetrating oil and ATF as suggested. No amount of tapping on the pistons has resulted in any movement so far.

    I thought about removing the flywheel and mag plate but can’t find a match for the flywheel puller bolts. Maybe 5/16 – 24 UNF threads? The 5/15-18 UNC threads almost work. Getting some penetrating oil onto the top of the upper crank bearing might help.

    Thanks in advance for your advice.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.