Phelon coils Mercury

[legendre]

quote mercuryman:

Legendre, for this mod you don’t change the gap between the magnet laminate core, you only remove material from the side until it fits in the OMC coil .

This is why I asked about what and how much was removed from where.

Any photos of what’s being done?

[jasonh]

quote mercuryman:

I am talking the laminates that go through the coil, after I filed them they looked fused together I used a knife and separated them.

Yeah…that may be problem. Should not have done that. Those layers are insulated from each other and you disturbed that I think. The insulated layers, laminates, are to reduce eddy current losses. If you want a headache, read this http://physics.stackexchange.com/questi … ent-losses

[legendre]

quote JasonH:

quote mercuryman:

I am talking the laminates that go through the coil, after I filed them they looked fused together I used a knife and separated them.

Yeah…that may be problem. Should not have done that. Those layers are insulated from each other and you disturbed that I think. The insulated layers, laminates, are to reduce eddy current losses.

Right. This is what I was getting at, with my previous question / comment.

I’m not sure if shorting the laminations at the edges, or on one end, would have any significant effect. But it’s true that the mfr. did what they could to keep those stacked core layers electrically insulated from one another.

As you correctly point out, they employ this laminated design to reduce the eddy current losses – and any energy lost to eddies is energy that +won’t+ show up in the plug gap.

[jasonh]

Lets separate fact from theory.

Fact: Many people have done conversion with great majority suceeding.
Fact:mercuryman narrowed his issue down to laminate. Don’t think anyone could argue that.
Fact:Without getting into depths of electrical engineering theory, we know that layered laminates are insulated and all by design.

With that said, many successes grinding or filing center leg. What I am willing to bet is that very few if any modifying phelon removed rivets and seperated layers. There is the obvious difference and detirmining factor in my view.

I think chances are with all conversions done, others have filed or grinder unequal amounts and conversion still worked . However, cant completely dismiss it because we dont know for sure.

Only way to know for sure would be to test out both separately. I am not willing to do this. I don’t have laminates to waste.

So I will end in saying that probable cause is seperating layers of laminate. Enough is enough.

[mercuryman]

Separating the layers was the last thing I did and it didn’t change the strength of the spark, so it made no difference . I an through experimenting on this Mk 10 I will find another core a use a Phelon coil.

[jasonh]

Perhaps you did take too much material off or too much off one side. Unfortunately I think you are one with oddball issue and mystery will lie with you.

Would you be willing to send me the laminate?

[mercuryman]

JasonH, I have a Wizard WH7 with a similar Phelon Magneto I going to give it try there. If I have the same problem I could send it to you. I had a colonoscopy this morning so I will try tomorrow.

[Tubs]

mercuryman
Sent you a PM

A "Boathouse Repair" is one that done without having tools or the skills to do it properly.

[mercuryman]

JasonH I sent you a PM

[legendre]

quote JasonH:

Lets separate fact from theory.

Fact: Many people have done conversion with great majority suceeding.
Fact:mercuryman narrowed his issue down to laminate. Don’t think anyone could argue that.
Fact:Without getting into depths of electrical engineering theory, we know that layered laminates are insulated and all by design.

Sounds about right.

quote :

With that said, many successes grinding or filing center leg. What I am willing to bet is that very few if any modifying phelon removed rivets and seperated layers. There is the obvious difference and detirmining factor in my view.

I don’t recall him offering much detail on how many lams he separated. Did he break the stack into two or three pieces, or into all of its constituent layers?

If the latter, I’d think that it +could+ be difficult to re-assemble them with the same alignment & intimacy as the original assembly – and much more so, if they were re-assembled out of (original) order.

Per my understanding – as the distances between the laminations increase, the ‘focusing’ effect of the core decreases, and with it, the stored energy and the spark power. As you point out, there’s not much else to blame for this, save some other assembly / setup error that’s been overlooked.

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