Row Boat Motor Magnetos

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This topic contains 74 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Buccaneer Buccaneer 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 75 total)
  • Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2992
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    #84555
    quote Richard A. White:

    10 degree lag????

    it should be firing before TDC…not at…
    Make it stupid, retard the timing…LOL

    Just guessing but I know of no engine that fires right at TDC, all that I know of are BTDC, how much depends on the set up…

    Impulse magnetos are set up to fire at TDC, and are mostly found on tractors that
    you "may" need to hand crank. It’s no fun cranking a tractor and having it fire
    before top dead center. The "kick back" can really ruin your day. 😯
    I believe the 10 degree lag means that the magneto stops turning for 10 degrees
    while the spring in the impulse coupling "winds up" , releases, and zips the magneto fast
    to make a nice spark. Once the engine is over 200 rpms or so, the timing should
    be a fixed 10 degrees BTDC.
    I’m sure someone will correct me if my understanding of the above is "all wet".
    But at least now I can blame it on the Pot smoke in Canada drifting south 😆

    Not sure impulse coupled mags are meant to be on RBM’s, but mine won’t spark at low speed
    without the impulse coupling in place.
    I watched some YouTube videos, but could find no RBM’s with mags. 🙁

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Tubs
    Tubs
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2232
    Topics: 127
    #84574
    quote Richard A. White:

    Anyone ever try starting a RBM by just grabbing the flywheel with both
    hands and pull it thru compression?


    The Super Elto’s timer along with using a battery is the
    reason they start by bouncing them off of compression.
    You will need to pull yours through compression as the
    mag makes the current. You’ll want to start with the
    flywheel back as far as possible to get a full charge in
    the coil before the points open.

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2992
    Topics: 835
    #84584

    Tubs, nice to see "smoke" on your RBM…. hope to see the same some day!
    I wish I could put your video in "SloMo". Are you pulling the flywheel
    through compression, or is it bouncing off reverse compression?
    Also, where is the spark advance set during this process to "help out".
    I’m not sure I’m man enough anymore to pull this Wisconsin through
    compression, and realize after I thought of using both hands, that
    it won’t be an option after the gas tank is back on, due to clearance
    for the pinkies.
    Thanks!

    quote Tubs:

    quote :


    The Super Elto’s timer along with using a battery is the
    reason they start by bouncing them off of compression.
    You will need to pull yours through compression as the
    mag makes the current. You’ll want to start with the
    flywheel back as far as possible to get a full charge in
    the coil before the points open.

    Prepare to be boarded!

    RICHARD A. WHITE
    RICHARD A. WHITE
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 1576
    Topics: 124
    #84590

    http://www.rebuiltmags.com

    http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com

    Tubs
    Tubs
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2232
    Topics: 127
    #84609
    quote Buccaneer:

    Are you pulling the flywheel
    through compression, or is it bouncing off reverse compression?

    Just pulling the flywheel through compression.

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
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    Topics: 835
    #84611

    Thanks Tubs. Maybe tomorrow I’ll see if I can rig up a temporary
    gas tank and see if I can get the beast to pop a few times.
    The poppet valve in my carb was missing the spring,
    so I had to "guess" on a spring with the correct tension.
    Also the poppet valve stem is pretty loose in the guide,
    so that may have to be addressed some how.
    The poppet valve does bounce when spinning the flywheel,
    so maybe it’s okay for now.

    Prepare to be boarded!

    RICHARD A. WHITE
    RICHARD A. WHITE
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 1576
    Topics: 124
    #84625

    I got a hold of the people I gave a link for, they do not able to help..bummer

    http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com

    Avatar
    jimparrott
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 23
    Topics: 2
    #84626

    Buccaneer,

    Make sure you have a kill switch hooked up to the magneto in case it over speeds. Slow turning 2 strokes are controlled primarily with timing. I would suggest that you start out with the timing 10-20 degrees retarded and advance as needed. You fuel mixer dosn’t appear to have a throttle control so it won’t be much help in trying to slow it down. The stem being sloppy shouldn’t be much trouble as long the valve is seating. Sounds like your spring will be fine since it’s opening. As Tubs stated pulling thru compression is the way to start it. Bumping against compression is more of a buzz coil battery ignition setup starting procedure. If planning on running on a boat you will need to be able to adjust timing while running. I would suggest finding a magneto that is adjustable, or converting it to a battery buzz coil type ignition system.

    Below is a link to a engine I have, that by design of the make and break ignition system cannot be retarded past TDC. In order to run it without a load, the throttle in barely opened to keep it from overspeeding. Restricting the air this much, causes it to cycle multiple times between firing.

    Jim

    Avatar
    jimparrott
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 23
    Topics: 2
    #84627

    My friend JB was given an engine at a show that was missing major parts. We decided to start it with minimal fabrication efforts. Having a buzz coil ignition system is a handy tool to have. We simply used some rigid house wire and a bolt to fabricate a make shift timer and a fuel wet rag for a carburetor. In a short time we were able to fire up this old marine engine.
    Check out the short video below.

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2992
    Topics: 835
    #84629
    quote Richard A. White:

    I got a hold of the people I gave a link for, they do not able to help..bummer

    Richard, I emailed the mag rebuilder, but as of yet, received no reply.
    I wasn’t looking for a Elkhart mag, as even if he had one, I’m not into
    buying "rare antiquities". Just looking for answers as to what other mags
    may be a better replacement, etc.
    Thanks for trying.

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2992
    Topics: 835
    #84630

    Jim, that’s an interesting engine. Was that a "one off" or did it
    go into mass production?

    Good advice on "over speeding" the Wisconsin. The mag does have
    a kill button on it. I know my current mag isn’t ideal, having non-adjustable
    spark advance, and spark in only one direction, etc., but I was
    hoping to get the Wisconsin running while my uncle (who gave it to me)
    is still walking this earth.

    I could retard the mag by pulling the flywheel up, and setting the drive
    gears "back" one tooth. Not sure what that equals in degrees of timing,
    but both drive gear on the flywheel, and driven gear on the mag drive shaft,
    have 20 teeth. Doing some math, which isn’t my favorite thing, I come
    up with 18 degree’s retarded by setting the gears back one tooth.
    Not sure if it would start retarded that much. Possible I could mess with
    the points in the mag to retard it a "tad".

    Plan "C" was to convert the Bendix mag to a distributor, using battery
    and coil, but it still wouldn’t have any advance, so I’m in no hurry
    for that plan. Not sure I can engineer a battery ignition with spark advance.
    Thanks for the hep!

    quote JimParrott:

    Buccaneer,
    Make sure you have a kill switch hooked up to the magneto in case it over speeds. Slow turning 2 strokes are controlled primarily with timing. I would suggest that you start out with the timing 10-20 degrees retarded and advance as needed. You fuel mixer dosn’t appear to have a throttle control so it won’t be much help in trying to slow it down. The stem being sloppy shouldn’t be much trouble as long the valve is seating. Sounds like your spring will be fine since it’s opening. As Tubs stated pulling thru compression is the way to start it. Bumping against compression is more of a buzz coil battery ignition setup starting procedure. If planning on running on a boat you will need to be able to adjust timing while running. I would suggest finding a magneto that is adjustable, or converting it to a battery buzz coil type ignition system.
    Below is a link to a engine I have, that by design of the make and break ignition system cannot be retarded past TDC. In order to run it without a load, the throttle in barely opened to keep it from overspeeding. Restricting the air this much, causes it to cycle multiple times between firing.
    Jim
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EI0k5zaj4X0

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2992
    Topics: 835
    #84631

    You guys get an "A +" for ingenuity on that one!

    quote JimParrott:

    My friend JB was given an engine at a show that was missing major parts. We decided to start it with minimal fabrication efforts. Having a buzz coil ignition system is a handy tool to have. We simply used some rigid house wire and a bolt to fabricate a make shift timer and a fuel wet rag for a carburetor. In a short time we were able to fire up this old marine engine.
    Check out the short video below.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oc5fHoOlJM

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Avatar
    jimparrott
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 23
    Topics: 2
    #84641

    Buccaneer,

    I bought the engine off eBay as an unknown, and after 2 years we were able to identify as a Kowalsky Simplex Marine Engine. It is the only known survivor of this model Kowalsky. John Kowalsky was a great inventor, with The Verona PA Historical Society celebrating his name yearly.

    A buzz coil is very simple to make and I can help you with that if you want to go that route. A timer would also be easy to make and I think you could easily adapt a set up that would provide a reliable, adjustable ignition system on a budget. If the correct mag is located you can convert back, but the battery ignition would start and run better. I’ll get some pics of simple timers and a buzz coil and post them for your viewing pleasure.

    Jim

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 2992
    Topics: 835
    #84654

    Jim, I’m somewhat familiar with buzz coils and timers,
    as I used to play with "hit and miss" engines. I still have
    a GRAY stationary engine with said ignition. The hit
    and miss engines I owned did not have any type of
    timing advance, as they were governed to run one
    speed. If you have any ideas on how to set up
    a battery and buzz coil and have the timing
    adjustable, that would be great.
    Thanks!

    Prepare to be boarded!

    Avatar
    jimparrott
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 23
    Topics: 2
    #84658

    Buccaneer,

    I assume your engine was likely offered with battery or magneto ignition, and obviously had the magneto option. Is your crankcase machined for a swing timer?

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