Row Boat Motor Magnetos

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This topic contains 74 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Buccaneer Buccaneer 10 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3084
    Topics: 861
    #84659

    Jim, I don’t believe my the Model M was offered without a magneto,
    but there were certainly some models during some years that had the
    Evinrude style timer below the flywheel.
    Craib’s website shows some for 1913, and I have an ad for 1915 showing
    a timer set-up.
    One ad said all 1914 models equipped with a high tension reversible magneto.
    That said, I’m not exactly sure what year mine is.
    The upper crankcase does not looked machined for a timer, but
    there may be room to rig one up.
    One motor on Craib’s site appears to have been converted from magneto,
    to some sort of timer affair running off the magneto drive shaft.
    http://www.cailleoutboards.com/rowboat/ … -002f.html


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    jimparrott
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 24
    Topics: 2
    #84661

    Buccaneer,

    Do you have access to a lathe? I think a simple timer such as the ones used on inboard engines could be fabricated to take the place of the mag, or you could use a swing timer that would look more original. Please post a picture of the bottom of the flywheel. I will make a few drawings for suggestions. Having problems with posting pics right now and will be out of pocket til tomorrow..

    Thanks
    Jim

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3084
    Topics: 861
    #84668

    Jim, Yes on the lathe. Don’t have any photos of the bottom of my flywheel,
    but it should be the same as the one below. Just realized after looking
    at that photo, that there probably wouldn’t be room to mount
    a Evinrude type timer on the top of the crankcase, as the gas tank
    mounts too close. Not sure what a "swing" timer is, but look forward
    to your suggestions.
    Thanks!

    quote JimParrott:

    Buccaneer,

    Do you have access to a lathe? I think a simple timer such as the ones used on inboard engines could be fabricated to take the place of the mag, or you could use a swing timer that would look more original. Please post a picture of the bottom of the flywheel. I will make a few drawings for suggestions. Having problems with posting pics right now and will be out of pocket til tomorrow..

    Thanks
    Jim


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    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3084
    Topics: 861
    #84686

    I was thinking about how other magneto’s that have adjustable timing
    advance "worked", and remembered that I had an old tractor magneto
    off a Farmall F-12 in storage the last 36 years, so I dug it out and
    it’s pretty "high tech" for the 1930’s in how it works.
    The Farmall mag has a drum that the points mount to, that
    rotates inside a bore. The drum’s rotation is limited via a pin in the bore
    and a slot in slot in the drum. The cover engages the drum to advance or
    retard the timing.
    I don’t see a way to adapt the same idea to my magneto. I still think there must
    be a way to rig up a movable contact points plate with lever,
    but it’s not coming to me.
    The Farmall mag is cleverly designed so the coil wire that attaches to the
    points does not move or twist around. That would just be one
    consideration.
    Any magneto engineers "out there"?


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    jimparrott
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 24
    Topics: 2
    #84694

    Buccaneer,

    Attached are some pictures of some jump spark ignition timers. Using a buzz coil spark occurs when the circuit is closed via points or wiper. The first pick shows an early Lockwood that has a spring loaded plunger that contacts a brass contact placed in the insulated ring. The next two is a later Lockwood converted to modern points. Last is a Ferro that the cam lobe simply swipes against a piece of spring steel which is insulated from the timer housing. Castings for the Lockwood handle and plunger are available as well as the covers. I use micarta for the insulating ring and cam lobe for these timers. A simple one piece housing can quickly be turned on a lathe with a suitable sized round of aluminum and handle added. A mount could be fabricated from some .5 – .750 aluminum plate. A short drive shaft, with a set collar on the engine side of the mount. A wiper or point set up with a insulated contact, buzz coil, cover and mount and your good to go. I hope this makes since. My shop is across town and no internet there, if needed I can go take some timers apart for more pics if needed. Will post some buzz coil info in a little bit.


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    jimparrott
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 24
    Topics: 2
    #84697

    Buccaneer,

    Attached are some links to buzz coil options and pics of my set up which is a JB coil.

    http://www.pfs-ware.com/rbmj/pdf/RBMJ_V2_I1.pdf

    http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/m … /3079.html


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    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3084
    Topics: 861
    #84703

    Jim, thanks a million! You’ve given me a lot of "food for thought".
    That Lockwood type of timer you show intrigues me. Your drawing
    gives me a general idea on how to make the timer handle
    swivel. I would have to figure out some "stops" to limit travel,
    and some way to tension the advance so it didn’t wander.
    Again, Thanks for all the help!

    quote JimParrott:

    Buccaneer,

    Attached are some links to buzz coil options and pics of my set up which is a JB coil.

    http://www.pfs-ware.com/rbmj/pdf/RBMJ_V2_I1.pdf

    http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/m … /3079.html

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    jimparrott
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 24
    Topics: 2
    #84709

    Buccaneer,

    You could split the mount on the top and add a screw to tighten the gap, or just add a nylon tipped set screw. I do have the blueprint drawings for the Lockwood timers if you need them. The Lockwood timer has stop pins that stick out the bottom and hit the upper timer mount. Below is a picture of a homemade timer for a two cylinder Lockwood. Also a bottom view of the Ferro timer.

    FYI, I checked my Ferro RBM, it has a Bosch Magneto but doesn’t fire in both directions. I think it could probably be set up to fire in the opposite direction with changing the internal timing. These motors don’t really need reverse.
    Jim


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    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3084
    Topics: 861
    #84713

    Jim, thanks again. I’ve been out in the garage seeing what
    I might have to build a timer out of. So far I’ve found
    some 3" aluminum round stock, some old 4 x 3" aluminum
    angle, etc., I "kind of" have a plan. Once I get more figured
    out, I’ll run it by you!

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    kees
    International Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 545
    Topics: 19
    #84761

    .
    Good to see your progress with this motor, but one thing what I don’t understand is…
    Are there in the whole US no good magneto’s to find what could be a nice , good looking one
    on this outboard ?
    What you really need is a good "look a like" of the original,
    I am thinking of an American Bosch what was used on a Caille RBM or Liberty Twin.
    ( In working order is an other question but that problem can always be solved later. )
    That type I should looking for, if I was you.
    And sorry to say, but if we were neighbours, I could help.
    Have a couple spare magneto’s , German and Swedish brand, used on Swedish RBM’s.
    How they look ? Go to Jack Craib’s website and click on all the Swedish brands for an idea.
    I will certainly use one of these on my Wisconsin in the future.
    yeah, yeah, I have to admit, my Wisconsin RBM is missing the magneto as well.
    😥
    .

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3084
    Topics: 861
    #84790

    Kees, I’m not doing anything to the motor that can’t be changed
    back to original in a few minutes, in case I find a more suitable,
    and affordable magneto.

    Do any of your RBM magnetos use impulse couplings?

    The original Elkhart magneto was said to run the motor in reverse
    at well. Not sure what other magnetos had that capability.
    I emailed one magneto rebuilder to ask what replacement magneto
    might be a good substitute for the Elkhart. I received no reply,
    but maybe I’ll try a few more.

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    jack-williams

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    #84835

    I have a 1950s (1956-58?) vintage Evinrude 7.5 HP Fleetwin. We had a massive rain storm and the boat it was on sank. It could have been under water for two days. I pulled it out, dried it out, cleaned the plugs, cleaned the sediment bowl, flushed the carburetor, blew out everything with air, used a heat gun to dry the magnetos, checked the spark plugs to make sure I was getting spark, and put new gas in the tank. It pulls in through without any problem, but won’t start. It popped once, but that was it. Should I replace the magnetos? What else could be the problem?

    Thanks

    Jack Williams

    seakaye12
    seakaye12
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 395
    Topics: 104
    #84840

    Hi Jack and welcome to the site!

    You should really start a new thread and put your specific issue in the title; works best in terms of attracting eyes that might be able to help…..and is generally considered good forum Etiquette.

    Your problem can only be one of three things; spark, gas or compression. I suspect spark and I would ask how you are testing it. Generally you would want to verify that your spark can jump a nice healthy gap….maybe twice or even three times the 0.35" gap at the plug. This is best done with a spark tester like this one:

    If you have good spark with this test I would then remove the plugs and squirt a bit of pre-mix directly into the cylinders and try starting again. You can also inject pre-mix in the throat of the carb. You might have to remove the silencer part up front to do that.

    I’ve had sunken engines too….and I generally inject liberal amounts of pre-mix down the throat of the carburetor with the engine lying on the ground so it runs in past the reed valves and into the crankcase. Turn the engine over for a bit to get the fluids to penetrate and displace any water that is in there.
    You can do the same through the spark plug holes…..again with the engine lying on the ground but with the cylinder head facing upward.

    Why not start a new thread and see who else replies to you. Many of us have been there and sure don’t want a fine engine to be damaged by rust. Hopefully there wasn’t a lot of sand or mud in it’s resting place.

    Good Luck!

    Buccaneer
    Buccaneer
    US Member - 1 Year
    Replies: 3084
    Topics: 861
    #84842

    Yikes, my thread has been Hi-Jacked, lol.

    Prepare to be boarded!

    RICHARD A. WHITE
    RICHARD A. WHITE
    US Member - 2 Years
    Replies: 1619
    Topics: 129
    #84850

    And I am not sure how to move, just his post…… LOL

    http://www.richardsoutboardtools.com

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