May 19, 2018 at 2:07 am #76304
Hey Don, I have a bit of an update here. So I do have some longer thread plugs around, I havent checked them to see if the threads will fit in the outboard and if they are long enough. Finding the plug stop tool was much more difficult than I anticipated, by now I could have had one from an online store ! I have read the sync instructions a few times and plan on printing them out before I attempt this. Thanks again for uploading those pages, I really appreciate it. Although they are fairly easy to understand directions, there are a few points that are a bit intimidating, and a few questions I had as well. However Im going to jump back just a bit first….
You had previously asked for a video of the engine at Idle and when having the issue. I did manage to take the boat out three times since my last post and got some footage of the engine and tach at idle when running well. I dont have any of it exhibiting the issue at the moment, and also am in a bit further with the starter.
The First of the 2 days the engine seemed to be running better than normal, it fired up a bit quicker but was having the same starter/solenoid issue. The solenoid was not engaging the gear into the flywheel, the gear is also pretty worn away near the top…from grinding on the flywheel. I have been having to wind the gear into the flywheel teeth first, then turn the key and pray. It sometimes will engage normally once the boat has been running for a while, but not always, and the condition began to get worse on this day. Before the next time out I noticed a good amount of leakage below the l/u. It seemed to be coming from the upper vent screw. I havent gotten into this, but I presume it could be some water getting in. More fun. Heres the footage of the engine running on this day its a zip file so you will need to download it. I cant get the vids up any other way they are mp4
. Let me know if it doesnt work for you.
The Second of the days the starter was behaving similarly, only engaging occasionally. The stalling issue was worse, especially while pulling a skier. So I very reluctantly drove the 2 1/2 hours down to the city and bought a brand new factory brp starter for $250. I got home late and didnt install it before the next mornings outing…. bad choice !
The next day was a bad day. It took longer than normal at the dock to get the engine started. Once going she seemed pretty good, brought up to plane, seemed pretty smooth, except for at low speed and of during the specific rpm range where it always stalls. Then it stalled out and refused to start. I had to hand wind the gear into the flywheel before each failed attempt. My wife and buddy paddled us towards the dock. Another boat noticed us and pulled us the rest of the way in. First time having to get pulled back in this boat
So now not only am I hoping to get this thing synced properly, Im also putting a starter in ! The first point in the sync directions that has me a bit tripped up; Between 1d and e. Says in "d" to hold piston firmly against stop (tool) while marking the underside of the flywheel. I presume you do this by rotating the flywheel clockwise, as this will move the piston. However the next step "e" says you then rotate the flywheel clockwise until the piston touches the stop again. How is it possible to rotate the flywheel further while the piston is being kept from moving by the stop tool ? Do I remove the tool/plug then after a slight flywheel move reinstall, then continue rotating ?
And then with steps 6 and 7. Step 6 uses a timing light, I dont currently own one, I would be interested in buying one, is there any special type needed for outboards ? Is there any that you would recommend ? Step 7 looks pretty complex. Both steps say the engine needs to be running, in step 7 it says not on a flushing device, I presume that means not on the muffs.
I will probably look the instructions over a few more times before getting my hands dirty. Ive been super busy lately, it seems like every second Im cramming in as much as possible so that I can make some time to get back out on the water! Im hoping to have some time on sunday afternoon to start messing with these sync adjustments. Thanks again for all of your patience, time, knowledge and being so considerate. I hope this finds you well. I will definitely call you if I get hung up, otherwise I will do my best to not hassle you !May 19, 2018 at 10:21 am #76310
OK, watched the short videos, seemed like normal idling RPM…
It is best that we talk by phone, so I can explain the sync instructions. This is not a hard operation, but can be tough to understand off the written page…DonMay 19, 2018 at 8:10 pm #76337
Thanks Don, Will do when I get into it. This thread has almost 2000 views, so hopefully its helpful to others out there too…..unless they are just viewing for purely entertainment purposes. LOL !
Topics: 31May 19, 2018 at 8:18 pm #76338
That is a standard method for finding Top Dead Center on a flywheel. Go clock ways at least an inch and a half past top dead center. install the engine stop. Turn back against the stop and make the first mark. Now turn it clock ways almost a full revolution until the piston hits the stop again. make the second mark. Top Dead center is centered between the marks. If the workers at the factory are doing there job, your center mark will be under the "T" on the flywheel and no adjustments will be necessary. . .
May 20, 2018 at 5:49 pm #76417
Thanks for simplifying this for me Garry. Appreciated.May 20, 2018 at 10:46 pm #76440
Your flywheel can be helpful also, because it has a decent timing scale "ATDC". In other words, if you set the piston stop (long reach plug) against the piston while the flywheel reads approximately 20 degrees ATDC, then rotate it clockwise until it hits the piston stop again, you would expect to have the piston stop/hit the tool at 20 degrees BTDC if all is well….May 21, 2018 at 11:16 pm #76512
AHHH !! I see. That was going to bring me to my next question; Yesterday after installing the new starter, I attempted this step of the sync. I actually took a picture of the flywheel after I marked it.
Now Im going to recheck it…..I used a long plug, turned the flywheel past the tdc mark (clockwise) by about an inch or so, installed the plug, then turned the flywheel counterclockwise til it hit the plug, marked the flywheel, then turned clockwise til it hit again, re marked, then used a measuring tape to measure the distance, divided in half. I mistakenly thought that the arrow was supposed to line up with my "middle" mark. It of course didnt, but was because thats not where the starting point was. I get it now, and though im pretty sure its right, am going to recheck. Im also looking to move on to the next step.
However, something I discovered yesterday may be a big clue. As I mentioned in a previous post, I had just changed the plugs. When I pulled the plugs to do this test I noticed all the nearly new plugs were pretty filthy. One however looked so clean, Im not sure if has even been firing ? It was cylinder #3 (directly below #1) I have a pic showing the plug,
and also one showing the #1 plug,
which is what the other 4 look like. Im hoping someone can shed some light on this please. I also got a hold of one of those micro syringe deals from walgreens, so I can check the recirc valves. Thanks againMay 22, 2018 at 1:55 am #76534
Again, the easiest way to check TDC on your engine is to turn the flywheel past TDC to about the 20 degree ATDC mark. Then screw the long reach plug in until it hits the piston at this point…Now, turn the flywheel clockwise until it hits again on the other side of the grid…All is well if it hits the plug at 20 degrees BTDC +/- a few degrees…
Kinda hard to tell if that plug is firing or not…Clean it up along with the #1 plug, then swap em….We will see what it looks like after you run it again…
Once you have confirmed TDC is OK/close enough, we can talk by phone to do the rest of the sync procedures…DMay 24, 2018 at 6:55 pm #76656
I managed to recheck, it came out exactly on. I hadent yet read the above post, I ended up going off the 12 mark on the flywheel, either way it came out perfect, so on to the throttle cable adjustment. I will clean up the plugs, swap em and see what happens next time out/running. Im hoping after work this evening I will have some time to wrench. I will either call or update later this evening if I get a chance.May 24, 2018 at 8:46 pm #76659
OK, so TDC is OK….
Give me a call anytime today/tonight…
401-573-3025May 25, 2018 at 7:03 pm #76713
Thanks Don ! Im super busy today and tomorrow with work, but Im eager to knock out as much of the sync as I can on sunday, hopefully a test outing on monday. I will get at you on sunday. my #970 401 1227, just so you know who is calling, as I personally never answer unknown calls.May 25, 2018 at 7:42 pm #76718
OK, will keep my phone close on Sunday…DonMay 27, 2018 at 4:41 pm #76831
Thanks Don, I just finished re reading the sync instructions and am hoping to give this a shot in a few. However, one thing Im curious about. Im really wondering if I have the correct plug in there. The original Johnson manual shows the correct application as Champion QUL77V or UL77v. The motor came with champion L77JC4 plugs, which I replaced with the same part #. I did a cross reference check on that original part#, I found out that the plug Im currently using doesnt seem to be listed anywhere in the cross reference. The alternate part# that came up was QL76v (champ) it also listed several others by brand, but L77JC4 was not one of them. Should I switch em out ? or is the plug that Im currently running ok ?
US Member - 2 Years
Topics: 104May 27, 2018 at 6:47 pm #76842
Still alive! Anything after 1986 can run the QL77JC4 (or just L77JC4). The head design changed to allow a J gap plug. The surface gap plugs will be too cold &’cause fouling problems. Don’t go there! I think you are getting real close to closing this one out. Don’t forget to keep the engine cover (top) level with the water line while idling around. It makes a huge difference in idle quality. After you start to speed up as you leave a no wake zone just trim under to take off. It becomes second nature. Same thing when you come off plane. Back up to level. If your trim gauge works just note position on gauge. It all becomes automatic with practice. It really helps the drain system work better & exhaust relief work better (two little holes in mid section) at water level. Don will care you thru! Gotta take a nap now.
Dan in TN
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