Home Forum Ask A Member TDC timing tool recommendation

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 12 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #10938
    wyo307
    Participant

      Hello all. I am currently working on getting my mercury mark 28a rat motor all put together and I would like to buy a TDC timing tool to get the timing just right. What ones do you all have? I like the buzzetti but can’t find a source that has any of them in stock. Any help in getting the timing perfect would be very helpful as well. I have the old service manual on the timing but don’t have the tool to do so yet.

      #81607
      gdcarpenter
      Participant

        For what it’s worth I use a dial gauge. I clamp it to the block and run the plunger down through the #1 spark plug hole contacting the piston top. Once TDC is established set the dial Gauge to zero. Then rotate the engine backwards until you get the desired distance before TDC. Pretty darn accurate.

        #81615
        Pondrocket
        Keymaster

          Lifetime Member

          https://www.skygeek.com/action-air-2229 … 3wEALw_wcB

          Travis
          AOMCI VP Communications
          AOMCI Webmaster
          webmaster@aomci.org

          #81625
          Pete
          Participant

            US Member

            Since you have a rat engine and want to get the timing just right here is what I do (been doing since the race days) to get my 2 cylinder point ignition race engines timed perfect so both cylinders fire at the same BTDC position:

            Tools: I use the magneto buzz box Travis24 posted (very accurate based on inductance not continuity) and a 0.001" accurate analog (not digital) dial gage (Harbor Freight). I took a spark plug and busted out the center, removed the tip L ground electrode, filled case with JB weld, drilled it out for the dial gage shank OD, tapped the side for a set screw. I made one for 14mm and 18mm plug threads. Makes dial gage set up very quick and easy.

            Timing process:

            1. set point gap accurately on 1st cylinder to be timed (pick a cylinder arbitrary), the other cylinder point can be set approximate – step 3 will adjust it;

            2. place dial gage in 1st cylinder, find TDC, lock dial gage at zero, rotate engine CCW to desired BTDC timing (I actually go beyond desired BTDC a little bit and then CW back to desired – a slack thing), rotate mag plate till points break with buzz box signal, adjust mag plate to stop there. Check with slight CW and CCW rotation and note dial gage needle to be at your desired setting. On the race engines I lock the mag for no movement to prevent any slack/wear in the mag plate that changes the timing. Thus I start and run at full advance, no problem since running at high revs 99% of time. Starting could be an issue with kick back, develop a technique to start;

            3. place dial gage in 2nd cylinder, find TDC, lock dial gage, rotate engine CCW (and CW as I note in 2.) to same BTDC setting at 1st cylinder, adjust point gap for that cylinder so they just break with buzz box signal . This is a touchy thing because when you tighten the point holding screws they affect the setting, need to sneak up on it. Note the point gap will be slightly different than 1st cylinder, not an issue just a slight difference in coil dwell voltage – plenty there to fire the plugs. Check with slight CW and CCW rotation and note dial gage needle to be at your desired setting.

            For my setups I check ignition with a timing light with timing marks made for both cylinders. You will be surprised on timing fluctuations changes when running, if all well the fluctuations will be minimal. If a lot of fluctuations there is mag plate slack/wear, point bounce, etc in the mag. A lot of erratic fluctuations happen if the points do not have full parallel contact when closed. This needs to be fixed for top performance and reduced point contact wear. Even new points are not aligned correctly and need to be fixed.

            Once you do this a few times it gets very easy to repeat. Check often to keep top performance.

            #81637
            wyo307
            Participant

              Thank you all for the help!

              zul8tr that is a great write up on getting the timing nailed down. The same process that I was going to use more or less. I was planning on using my analog dial gauge for this process as well. The mag will be locked at the full advance location as you stated as well but my motor has a recoil on it so I should have better luck with kick backs not throwing the rope at me. Right now it is a very easy starting motor even with it not being adjusted properly yet.

              Does anyone have a good place to start with the timing for btdc? I have been told by an old racer that I want it between 0.350 and 0.400 and I will just have to play with it until I find what it wants on my boat and altitude etc. Does that sound right? The main thing is getting the two cylinders to fire at exactly 180 apart from each other. I know the service manual for a mark 28 calls for 0.275 but I am not using this block for what it was intended so further advancement makes sense.

              Thanks again for the help
              ryan

              #81646
              fisherman6
              Participant

                US Member - 2 Years

                Love the YETI can fuel tank! 😉 😆
                -Ben

                OldJohnnyRude on YouTube

                #81648
                wyo307
                Participant

                  Ben if it works it works haha. I just needed a small tank for testing motors in the bucket and that is what I had laying around. Works great!

                  #81649
                  fisherman6
                  Participant

                    US Member - 2 Years

                    It’s a slick idea with the way those come apart. I have 2 of those . I may have to do that myself for motors with gravity tanks. Hope you don’t mind if I steal your idea. 😉
                    -Ben

                    OldJohnnyRude on YouTube

                    #81652
                    Pete
                    Participant

                      US Member
                      quote Wyo307:

                      Thank you all for the help!

                      zul8tr that is a great write up on getting the timing nailed down. The same process that I was going to use more or less. I was planning on using my analog dial gauge for this process as well. The mag will be locked at the full advance location as you stated as well but my motor has a recoil on it so I should have better luck with kick backs not throwing the rope at me. Right now it is a very easy starting motor even with it not being adjusted properly yet.

                      Does anyone have a good place to start with the timing for btdc? I have been told by an old racer that I want it between 0.350 and 0.400 and I will just have to play with it until I find what it wants on my boat and altitude etc. Does that sound right? The main thing is getting the two cylinders to fire at exactly 180 apart from each other. I know the service manual for a mark 28 calls for 0.275 but I am not using this block for what it was intended so further advancement makes sense.

                      Thanks again for the help
                      ryan

                      Ryan

                      I recently set the timing on an engine like that for a friend. His engine had a lot of wear slack in the linkage and that needed to be fixed before doing the timing. How is your linkage ❓ Once linkage fixed I set his at .235" since a stocker used for fishing and it runs great. For you I suggest not to start too aggressive. Not knowing what rat work was done I recommend .320", .400" is way too much, perhaps work uo to 0.350"with testing. To determine the best timing for your engine and rig I do a run for about 3000 ft top speed with a tach and speedometer, when rpm and speed peaks and does not fall off I go a bit more. When fall off is noticed back off.

                      Timing also a function of how you will use the boat, when I raced APBA best top speed does not always win it’s how quick you go around the race course. Carb jetting, fuel ratio and octane is also a function related to timing. I run 87 E free in the Merc 25ss and the Yamato Y80 at 16:1. Always over 7000 rpm. These engines are low compression with effective compression ratio measured based on the top of the exhaust port, they usually fall around 6.5:1. You want fuel that burns fast.

                      What plugs are you using, projecting with cut back ground electrode recommended ❓

                      Once the points and timing is set like I described above you can always advance the locked mag and timing of points balance should still be very close. Can always check with buzz box and dial gage without pulling the flywheel if you have a 2 wire kill switch with a wire to each set of points terminal. Then just connect the buzz box to the exposed kill wires put the dial gage in the cylinder and check BTDC. Note timing the engine as I note is the best way to get the points to fire at exactly the same BTDC position and takes into account that there is some wear and looseness in the connecting rod, pin and crank bearings assembly. Put a kill switch on the mag and have the lanyard attached to your wrist in case you cartoon out 😮 , that will kill the engine electrically. Do you have a full butterfly in the carb to stop the air flow when you let go of the deadman throttle ❓

                      To save the recoil broken rope from kick back with locked full advance my process is to pull out about 12" of recoil slack before pulling over the engine. In case of kick back there is enough rope slack to deal with the kick back and prevent a broken rope from the handle going into the recoil. Get the tools 😡

                      Pete

                      #81654
                      wyo307
                      Participant

                        Thanks again pete that all makes perfect sense to me……I think.
                        Linkage is nice and tight and should hold nicely at where ever I lock it down at.
                        I am running 91 octane E free because that is what I have available locally.
                        I am running champion J6Cs for plugs gapped at 0.025"
                        I am ordering a kill switch for it along with a tiny tach
                        No I don’t have the full butterfly to kill it and I am not sure that I want one. This rig will never be raced and is just for fun so with the kill switch I don’t think that I will want the full butterfly to kill it.
                        Thank you for the tip on the kick back starting method.

                      Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 12 total)
                      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.