Timing a 6HP Johnson 1989

[joesnuffy]

Fleetwin,
I disconnected the kill switch line and no change. I also tried starting motor just on bottom cylinder and it almost starts. I ran it with only top plug and it didn’t run as smooth as I remember it running before so maybe I was wrong about that. It is running smoother when I run it now on both plugs just no cigar. I did pinch off the primer hose with it running and the engine speeds up then dies like their is not any fuel going to engine from the bowl. I have never worked on this type of engine before with the primer so not familiar with that probably won’t again lol if I can help it. I think I will pull the carb that’s on it now and inspect it and inspect the reed valves while its off. The guy brought me the carb that was on it I will go through it and put it back on but I will inspect the one that is on it currently.

I got to go get some non-alcohol fuel I am almost out and stop by and get gaskets on order it will take a bit of time so I will check back here before proceeding..

Thank You,
Joe

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.

[fleetwin]

OK, well I don’t see much wrong there, I’m sure that hole is not plugged also…The wetness looks like unburned fuel…If water was getting inside, you would see signs of rust in the combustion chamber also. That thermostat is probably missing parts like a relief spring, washers, etc, which is why it is so loose inside…Really don’t think that would affect the engine’s running this way.
The engine has the Q plugs, so that is good…Perhaps the bottom plug is NG, but I’m sure you have already replaced the plugs or swapped them. I don’t see any signs of overheat, the paint looks almost new and unburnt. You mention the bores and pistons/rings appear to be in good shape as far as you can see. So, the question is where is all the unburnt fuel coming from in the bottom cylinder….Is excess fuel being pumped into it somehow, or is a lack of proper crankcase sealing causing this mess. Again, pretty sure the fuel pump is plumbed into the top cylinder, and you have already bypassed the pump to eliminate it as a source of leakage…But, just recheck to make sure that the fuel pump is actually plumbed into the top cylinder….
Erratic ignition could certainly cause this, but I’m betting that UFI powerpack was replaced by the repair shop. But, perhaps the shop was not being honest, charged him for a new pack, but indeed never repalced it…Again, anything is possible here. In any event, please recheck the simple things I mentioned and be sure to eliminate the stop switch by simply unplugging the single black stop lead connector and running the engine. You swapped the coils, but the problem stayed on the bottom cylinder.
Please don’t forget about doing “verbal forensics” with the owner….Try to get all the details about when this happened and what may have been done to the engine that could have caused it…Was he running along fine, then the engine just started to misbehave? If so, any chance that he accidentally over revved the thing in neutral? Did he put the engine away, the it never ran right when recommissioned? Is this engine new to him, did it ever run right? Etc…
The only other thing I can think of is a plugged exhaust…Some of these engines, including the sailmaster versions have a plug in the usual gearcase exhaust snout. There is a big exhaust relief in the extension housing to help with reverse thrust. I have seen cases where guys convert these engines to short shaft and never remove the exhaust plug….It is easy enough to look in the gearcase exhaust snout, the plug will be obvious…This scenario seems unlikely though, but who knows…
A bad reed would certainly cause this issue, try peeking inside the manifold, maybe you can see something….Oh yeah, forgot you have to move the dang starter out of the way to get the carb off….You mentioned the repair shop allegedly put a new carburetor on this engine…Does it look new, any evidence of someone messing with the intake manifold, such as new gaskets or paint off the manifold screws? I don’t think the primer could be doing this, but pinching off the primer line is easy enough to try….Again, I would love to see a couple of the repair bill, and know if he got his old parts back from them? D
I realize you are going away, and the guy has a motor to use, so we can pick this discussion back up after you return….

[joesnuffy]

Fleetwin,
What about the primer hose when I pinched it off the motor speed up a bit then died. It seems like it is running thru primer tube not the carb? My buddy at the marine shop said the primer might be bad and it is running thru it not the carb? Something about a bad diaphragm possibly in it??? I have never worked on one of these. The carb does look new. I will get some pics.

Thanks,
Joe

ps id did disconnect the single kill wire did not effect it and I did spray brake cleaner around the crankcase haves, reed valve plates, top seal etc no motor speed change.

I have not swapped coils yet but will do so.

The reed valves bolts flanges etc seem not taken apart.

I looked at the diagram on the primer assembly seems like mainly o-rings I have a nitrile o-ring assortment. I think I will pinch hose #13 off in the diagram to see if motor runs better might make it pull through carb not primer. If that doesn’t help I am going to pull the carb and inspect it the reeds and the primer.

Thanks,
Joe

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1989&hp=6&model=J6RCEC&manufacturer=Johnson&section=Primer+System

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.

[joesnuffy]

Just an update got some fresh non-ethanol gas. Worked on the link and sync got the motor running very nicely on 1 cylinder it idles and revs very nicely so I am happy that was a blessing. I did a running compression check after I ran the motor for like 25 minutes it was 110lbs on the bottom. I looked at the plug on bottom cylinder a few times it looks like it has water in it. I am going to talk to the owner hopefully 2 morrow and see if he wants to spend the money on the gasket kit I don’t think it could hurt. I went to my buddies but he has to order them separate he gets his from a place here called pro-marine. I would rather order them all especially if we decide to do a powerhead swap or something along those lines.

I believe what he told me was he had purchased the motor and then mixed to much oil in his fuel. He then took it to a place. I think the motor may have been running like it is now and to someone that does not know any better would think its a good running motor.

Thanks everyone for the help. Mumbles, Bill, and Fleetwin. I will keep you posted.

Joe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NuCCamMvM0

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.

[fleetwin]

OK, well let’s start with the primer hose…Which hose are you pinching off? I am assuming you are pinching off the tiny hose that runs from the primer to the top of the carb…I can’t really tell how the primer is plumbed on this engine by the parts break down…In any event, the engine shouldn’t stall out when the primer hose is removed…Perhaps the primer is leaking, and you have just adjusted the carb lean to account for the extra fuel the primer is delivering. Are you sure the primer is pushed all the way in? Remember it has three positions. How about pulling off the primer hose and pumping the fuel bulb, no fuel should squirt from the little primer hose with the primer in the off position, pushed all the way in…
Gee, that thing fooled me, sure sounds like it is running on two cylinders…As for your water theory, it only takes a few minutes to drop that gearcase so you can run it with no water going through it to see if things change…This engine has no shift connector, simply shift into forward gear, remove the gearcase bolts and it should drip right down…Make sure the lever is in forward position when you reassemble…
PS Dont put too much pressure on the gearcase trying to pull it down…True, the grommet may be stuck to the water tube, but the driveshaft splines may be seized as well…Don’t want you opening that can of worms…If the gearcase won’t come down with minimal effort,(you may have to pry a bit to free up the impeller housing water tube grommet), reinstall the bolts and forget it…

[joesnuffy]

Fleetwin,
I will re-check the primer today with your instructions. The link and sink seemed off when I worked on motor yesterday and that was after I was working on the primer.

When I was checking it yesterday I pinched the small hose and motor stopped running I also pinched the larger hose going to primer and engine stopped. I think their could be a problem with the primer system but I will need to re-visit it. Their did look like it had water in the bottom cylinder looking at the spark plug. I think I will drop the lower unit next because motor is running well and see if bottom cylinder kicks in.

I was looking at the diagram for the parts thinking of what to order and I don’t think that motor even has a bottom crank seal. I looked and other years do. It is a 1989 J6RCEC
Here is the crankcase and crank diagrams for it. If that is the case it could possibly be a bad base gasket?

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1989&hp=6&model=J6RCEC&manufacturer=Johnson&section=Cylinder+%26amp%3B+Crankcase

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1989&hp=6&model=J6RCEC&manufacturer=Johnson&section=Crankshaft+%26amp%3B+Piston

Thanks for help and instructions,

Joe

ps I am attaching a pic of a motor like this one it is on ebay and it shows just how close the water supply is to the crankshaft.

[fleetwin]

The lower seals are housed in the inner exhaust tube. The powerhead pictured has the inner exhaust tube removed….The inner exhaust housing is bolted to the powerhead and comes out with it when removed from the powerhead is removed from the exhaust housing.
Let us know what happens when you run the engine without the gearcase….. Please check the primer for leakage before removing the gearcase though, only takes a few minutes using the method I described….

[joesnuffy]

Thanks Fleetwin,
I will check the primer first and see what is going on.

Joe

[joesnuffy]

I disconnected the small primer line pumped fuel bulb with primer all the way in and no fuel came out small hose. I also started motor and pulled small primer line off while motor was running and no fuel was coming out I rev’d motor with it off and no fuel sprayed out of it. But it is just plain weird when I pinch it off with needle nose pliers while running the engine dies. I don’t think their is anything wrong because I can rev the motor like crazy and it revs like normal it has to be pulling off the main jet I would think to do that.

I re-checked the bottom plug and it still is wet looks like water I got the gaskets on order. That motor only has 6 head bolts that’s just crazy.

Also when I pull bottom spark plug wire with engine running no change in its running or its ability to rev up and down. I put screw driver into the boot up against block and plenty of fire on that coil.

That’s what I found so far,

Thanks,
Joe

ps I think what I will try next is to remove foot start engine for like 25 seconds/smooths out shut it down then remove top spark plug and see if it will start.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by joesnuffy.

[fleetwin]

Yes, only 6 bolts on the head is no good for sure, just a cost cutting move…
OK, let us know how you make out running the engine in the barrel with no gearcase….If the issue seems to go away with no water going through the powerhead, there is one more test you can do to really confirm your suspicions….
Make up some sort of adapter so you can attach the garden hose to the copper water tube…
Start the engine with the water off, then turn the hose on very slightly, if the engine starts to misbehave, shut the hose off again to see if the issue goes away…. We will talk about how to pinpoint the leak once you have confirmed that water leakage is the issue… Don’t rip the engine apart until we talk more about pinpointing the actual leak…The issue could be porosity somewhere, not just a bad gasket….
As for the primer issue, don’t know what to tell you….Pinching off the little primer hose then having the engine stall indicates a leaky primer, but you seems like you have done all the right tests to check for a leaky primer….

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